You saved a lot of money, Yes, and I would never have taken on doing a project as you just did for that savings

Well at least I didn't get fleeced and I learned a little about ICF construction.

Also I did do some things right. The 2"x2" metal rail strips attached to the slab saved a ton of time and produced a good quality positioning of the wall from the get-go. The first row of ICF's just snuggled into the rails and I didn't need to measure or move things around. You can see them on the ranch house construction website, link below...

http://tj.jjt.partyconnect.me/construction/walls/

The 8 foot 2x4's which hold the window and door bucks in place will double as place holders for horizontal steel 2x3 studs that will act as a straight edge for the top. Hopefully that will ensure that the top will be level and straight even though the horizontal cut was pretty wavy. I will update people on this thread after the pour regarding how well this worked out. By the way, the vertical 2x4's which hold the bucks up were screwed into the rail strips on the bottom to hold them in place. Those rails on the bottom really worked out well. Let's see if steel rails on top will pass the test?

You have vertical braces rigidly attached to the floor and to the window and door bucks? If your ICF foam settles any during the pour, the walls will be humped up over the windows and doors because they won't settle evenly with the rest of the wall because of the vertical braces.  And if the vertical braces are only on one side of the wall, it will cause the wall to want to tilt out in the opposite direction.

I'm not sure what you're getting at.   The bottom of the windows is a 2x6 ripped in half.    Given that 4" core walls are 9" wide, there will be a 3" gap.   We'll be pouring concrete through that gap.    This isn't my invention.   The ICF expert I'm working with said he does this all the time this way.     I'm not sure what you mean about the walls being humped over the windows?

Posted By jacktca on 15 May 2012 05:57 PM
...The 2"x2" metal rail strips attached to the slab...

... the vertical 2x4's which hold the bucks up were screwed into the rail strips on the bottom to hold them in place...

This is what I was questioning.  The vertical 2x4s mentioned above.

If you are using 4" pour a 4000lb mix with less aggregate and use a superP like a Fritz number 7 it's the only way to get a fully consolidated wall. Used to have the settling back in the good old days, the way to counter act this is to add furring strips on the inside and outside, this will keep the walls from settling

Aren't the braces fixed to the wall and doesn't that prevent the settling?

Good point about the braces. One would think that vertically attached braces would prevent settling. The way that is prevented is there is a long slot in the braces, maybe 1.5" long. The screw is attached to the ICF blocks at the top of that slot. So the block has about 1.5" that it can settle in the downward direction before it reaches the bottom of the slot. The screws that connect the braces to the ICF walls (plastic furring strips) are attached with a screwdriver set to ratchet 6 ouf of 20. So they are not connected so tight that the wall couldn't settle in the down direction when push comes to shove.

The 2x4 braces that the ICF expert had me connect to the window and door bucks are not connected to any ICF blocks. The top of the windows are positioned at 81.5". The 2x4's hold the window bucks up. That leaves 14" above the windows that is hardwired vertically. I suppose that little bit could hump. I figure since it's the top row that shouldn't be a problem. The ICF expert does window bucks this way all the time so if it would be a problem he should have seen it by now.

Here's the concrete mix I will use:

The problem with a 4000 lb mix is that anything 3000 lb or over requires a deputy. I'm not familiar with the term superP. Are you refering to pea gravel? I've been told that I should use plasticized to 8" slump concrete. I found a place that rents a 3/4" vibrator with a 10 foot needle.

Will you provide further description, in your opinion, why "Integraspec blows"?
I am considering their forms and posted here about a month ago seeking comments on their blocks. Next closest suppliers are Nudura and Arxx. I appreciate any comments before purchasing in about a month. Thanks.

Arxx was great for me. Excellent quality and engineering.

 So the block has about 1.5" that it can settle in the downward direction before it reaches the bottom of the slot.
Here's the concrete mix I will use:

The problem with a 4000 lb mix is that anything 3000 lb or over requires a deputy. I'm not familiar with the term superP. Are you refering to pea gravel? I've been told that I should use plasticized to 8" slump concrete. I found a place that rents a 3/4" vibrator with a 10 foot needle.

If your wall compresses at all something must be wrong.  I assume your reward and Integraspec blocks have plastic webs that extend all the way from the top of the block to the bottom, right?  I think everyone has been doing this for a while.  Years ago, the vertical plastic webs stopped about 1/2" from the top and the bottom of the block, which allowed the foam to compress a bit.  They figured 1/8" per block, and if you had 8 courses, that could equal an inch.  But, since the block manufacturers now extend the strips completely from the top to the bottom, you basically have a solid/physical connection from the top course, through the lower courses, all the way to the footer.  Therefore, no compression (unless something is wrong, like spaces and gaps, uneven footing, which can cause bridging).

About the mix - you are going to pour a mix that's less than 3000 psi?  That's a pretty wet mix with not much cement. 

Super P is a high range water reducer. It will take your mix from a 3 to an 8+ slump without adding water. You can't pour a 4" block without it unless your know magic. Tell your concrete supplier what your pouring. I'm sure they will suggest a 4000lb mix or higher with a super plasticizer added as well a less aggregate. My only problem with Integra Spec is the web cuts off the flow of concrete, concrete wants to flow sideways and the webs make it go up and down hill. I looked at their product in 1999 and after getting some samples I couldn't be sure that I would be able to pour a fully consolidated wall even with a lot of vibrating. I think if I used their product it would be for a wall 10" and above in depth

But, since the block manufacturers now extend the strips completely from the top to the bottom

My ARXX block strips from late 2011 didn't go all the way from top to bottom. There is about a 1" gap with only foam at each horizontal joint. I am not convinced that any compression is coming from there.

Plastic cross ties stretch when weighted. Compression occurs when the weight of the concrete stretches the cross ties and compresses the foam.

Sawyer asks: Will you provide further description, in your opinion, why "Integraspec blows"?

I thought I covered my grievances in a post on the first page of this topic. In a nutshell IntegraSpec blocks turned out to be extremely time consuming. The wall made with Reward went up in 1 hour. The remaining three walls made with IntegraSpec took about 5-6 days. Granted, there were no windows and doors on the Reward wall. But the job would have taken 1 at most 2 days with Reward blocks.

You mentioned Nudura and Arxx. Arxx look more or less like Reward blocks. Nudura blocks fold and I would hate to have a block fold on me while I'm cutting. Unless of course you just want to build full complete walls then cut the windows/doors out with a sawzall after the walls are up. If I were to do ICF construction as a job not do-it-yourself then that would be the method I would use.

My ICF consultant claims that blocks compress give/take 1/16" per block. So for 8 blocks height that would be 1/2"

This morning when he was out to inspect the site he also said that we will get a level top with the help of a string line and grinder. He has a wombat 7" grinder with a diamond blade. For concrete. He says that while the concrete is still fresh (same day of pour) we'll mark a line and then just cut both the styrofoam and concrete along that line.

Hey Jack. I don't know Jack, but that sounds like an f-ed up Rube Goldberg plan to me. Hey hey. I'll build me a concrete wall, a little bit bigger than I want, then I'm gonna cut it down to the size I really want. Yep. Go fer it.

Ray Gladstone it's not a crazy plan.  It's what happens when you mix blocks.   You end up having to cut the higher block to match the height of the lower block.    Cutting blocks horizontally creates a wavy uneven surface. 

Hey Jack, guys like you who can't cut straight and play mix-n-match with ICF blocks are what gives this industry a bad name. You should go back to fooling around with your computer and eating Cheet-os. Your "ICF consultant" sounds like a real winner, too. Leave the building to people with a clue. After your mess is complete, you'll go around telling anyone who will listen what a crappy way to build ICF is. Great, just what we all need.

He says that while the concrete is still fresh (same day of pour) we'll mark a line and then just cut both the styrofoam and concrete along that line.

Sounds like a lot of fun. Who gets to do that, you or he?

Won't that wall end up a bit short, or was it made higher to account for grinding it down?