I have some left over ICF's from the house project and I'm thinking of doing a laundry room (8x10) on the side with them.   No need for plans, permits, etc on the ranch for a structure that size.  The problem is I don't want to go all out and buy a barrel truck full of concrete and pay a pumper.   Home Depot and Lowes have left over pallets of quickcrete and mortar mix and concrete mix.   You can buy a half pallet for $10.

What are the implications of doing a small structure with ICF's a little at a time using a mix of concretes?   I know I know I know cold joints are a big deal.  My question is how big a deal are they?   Can I get away with it given the circumstances or would  I be doing something really really dumb and stupid?
    

An unfilled block wall has a cold joint every 8 inches. And I'm not convinced that a lot of ICF walls don't have voids and weak concrete. So my guess is that yours will be stronger than most.

You can buy a half pallet for $10.

21 80lb bags of Quikrete for $10? Aren't you going to need about 10 half pallets for that little job?

Who wants to mix that much concrete by hand?

Posted By ICFHybrid on 16 Aug 2012 06:01 PM

You can buy a half pallet for $10.

21 80lb bags of Quikrete for $10? Aren't you going to need about 10 half pallets for that little job?

Who wants to mix that much concrete by hand?

I'm with you Hybrid, that is a lot of back breaking labor to save a few bucks! Maybe rent a line pump for cheaper than the pump truck, and get a mixer truck delivery.

I'll save labor on setup costs and I won't have to rush. I can take my time to do only the project I want at my own pace. I won't need braces and reinforcements because the walls will be poured one row at a time. I'll do say 3-4 quickcrete bags per weekend. Every weekend I'm on the ranch another row of ICF blocks will go up. With a barrel truck you have 45 minutes. Big thing dumps it's load and it all has to happen fast. You have to have 10 cubic yards of work ready.

Big thing dumps it's load and it all has to happen fast. You have to have 10 cubic yards of work ready.

There is a reason this works.

Posted By jacktca on 16 Aug 2012 02:54 PM
I have some left over ICF's from the house project and I'm thinking of doing a laundry room (8x10) on the side with them.   No need for plans, permits, etc on the ranch for a structure that size.  The problem is I don't want to go all out and buy a barrel truck full of concrete and pay a pumper.   Home Depot and Lowes have left over pallets of quickcrete and mortar mix and concrete mix.   You can buy a half pallet for $10.

What are the implications of doing a small structure with ICF's a little at a time using a mix of concretes?   I know I know I know cold joints are a big deal.  My question is how big a deal are they?   Can I get away with it given the circumstances or would  I be doing something really really dumb and stupid?
    

This will take forever to do it that way and structurally it will be much weaker than a monolithic pour.

Being that it is a laundry room, I don't think it will be that detrimental to have dozens of cold joints. Although with cold joints longitudinal shear at the cold joint may become an issue. Cold joints are also potential spots for water/moisture to find their way in, corrode the rebar and freeze during winter, splitting the concrete in that spot. Engineers take into account for cold joints and try to avoid them whenever possible. When they are present, rebar and proper placement of concrete in those areas is a must.

You are going to do 3-4 bags, then clean all your equipment, how many times to make this little addition 50?

Doesn't sound like you are saving on labor to me.

Hey Jack... More power to you... Buy cheap...Take as long as you want .. Cold joints don't have to be that negative... Shape the cold joints properly, put a cold joint compound, put a moisture barrier on the outside .... Your final product will still be better than most any other method. Your foundation is the most important...

What I don't see is the advantage both financially and functionally in doing this project with bags of concrete over numerous months. In the end how much money will be saved, if any, it might end up costing you more than just having a pumper truck come in and knock it out in one day.

How is it going to cost more for concrete?  10 half pallets at $10 bucks/ea is $100 bucks. 10 yards of concrete is going well north of a $1000 bucks, plus pumping etc etc. Someone willing to do it themselves saves alot of money. It's just like cutting your own grass and not paying someone else to do it. Plus ya get extra exercise which we probably all need......:)

I get 4 cubic yards. I suppose you could try a few bags and then switch a pumper if it isn't worth it. I'm surprised that there isn't a low volume DIY way to pump concrete.

Posted By robinnc on 18 Aug 2012 11:05 PM
How is it going to cost more for concrete?  10 half pallets at $10 bucks/ea is $100 bucks. 10 yards of concrete is going well north of a $1000 bucks, plus pumping etc etc. Someone willing to do it themselves saves alot of money. It's just like cutting your own grass and not paying someone else to do it. Plus ya get extra exercise which we probably all need......:)

You are comparing apples to oranges here. Cutting ones one grass is not the same as pouring a monolithic concrete structural wall of a home. A 10 year old kid with no experience can cut grass but I wouldn't want him pouring a concrete wall. If the grass is cut unevenly, it grows back. An improperly poured wall can collapse and kill someone.

I am not disparaging you but making a valid point. There are certain things that require the pros and heavy machinery. Is one going to excavate a 10 foot deep basement with a backhoe or do it with a hand shovel? Is one going to pave a 40 foot driveway using 5LB buckets of chip seal or call in a road paving company?

Are you putting in rebar? If so, how are you addressing the cold joints? How are you addressing the consistency of the concrete and consolidation? Are you vibrating the pours?

I am not arguing that certain DIY projects save money, it does, but there are certain things that require the pros and utilization of heavy machinery (in this case a concrete truck & pumper).

Posted By jonr on 18 Aug 2012 11:18 PM
I get 4 cubic yards. I suppose you could try a few bags and then switch a pumper if it isn't worth it. I'm surprised that there isn't a low volume DIY way to pump concrete.

Rent a bobcat for a day. You can use it for backfilling and general site grading to get more value from the rental.

Sounds to me like we've got an owner, some one that likes to work for what he gets and takes pride in his accomplishment... Which in the long run saves MONEY that can then be used for something else on the project...

And someone that wants to throw MONEY at a project ... To gain nothing more than to say "I did it in s day, it cost me 10 times as much but.... I HAVE NO COLD JOINTS!".

I'm with the owner on this one!!

Based on the arguments presented here, I am not at all persuaded that buying Readymix and utilizing a concrete pumper for ICF forms is equivalent to throwing MONEY at a project. Even for a homeowner.

Posted By Robartfly on 19 Aug 2012 11:53 AM
Sounds to me like we've got an owner, some one that likes to work for what he gets and takes pride in his accomplishment... Which in the long run saves MONEY that can then be used for something else on the project...

And someone that wants to throw MONEY at a project ... To gain nothing more than to say "I did it in s day, it cost me 10 times as much but.... I HAVE NO COLD JOINTS!".

If one employed a method of using bags of concrete, mixed by hand each weekend, it would take 30 years to build a home. Not only that, the EPS would be exposed to UV and elements, which would ruin the EPS. Your building permits would get revoked due to the duration of the project. The uncompleted home would be an eye soar. I can go on and on about all the dozens of issues of doing a "by hand" concrete mix for an ICF home.

I'm sorry but your comments are ridiculous. "Throwing money at a project" because you call in a pumper to do an ICF project? No, it's about doing a project professionally and structurally sound. Mind you the OP is building an 8x10 room, not an entire home.

If you disagree about "cold joints", then you might want to take up your argument with structural engineers.

A HOUSE is a hellava lot different than a 8x10 room. Anybody would be an idiot to build a house using bags of concrete.

He's building a laundry Room... Let him enjoy his accimplishments...

Cutting ones one grass is not the same as pouring a monolithic concrete structural wall of a home.

Ha ha. Maybe it's like cutting your lawn with a push mower, or better yet, a pair of hand shears. The equipment is inexpensive and there is no gas and oil to buy.