ICF Electrical Boxes and Conduit
Last Post 14 Jul 2007 06:48 PM by walltech. 35 Replies.
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WayToGoUser is Offline
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27 Jun 2007 07:08 PM
Hi, New to the forum. 
The electrician and myself are in the process of installing all electrical plastilock boxes with schedule 40 pvc.
How good are the  Plastilock Electrical boxes for ICF electrical process?
What is the pros and cons of using this system?

New to ICF construction in NM.
groundupUser is Offline
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27 Jun 2007 07:21 PM
i just used them in my ICF project, i havent pulled any wire through them yet but it seems like it will be real easy and you dont have to cut up all your walls later on, it takes a little longer to istall the boxes and conduit but i think it will save you time later.
Raider BillUser is Offline
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27 Jun 2007 07:51 PM
Are you running the PVC instead of romex? Why if you don't mind me asking. Codes? cost?
walltechUser is Offline
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27 Jun 2007 09:47 PM
As an ICF supplier we would never recommend this procedure and I have to wonder who is helping you!
I would suggest to all other diy's that are reading this not to go this route, as it is time consuming and not
cost effective. It is much easier to wire an ICF with the proper tools: hot knife(supplied by your ICF supplier)
and a electric chainsaw (45.00 from H-depot or Lowe's)along with the proper screw on carlon boxes after the
concrete pour. 99% of all residential ICF projects are cut into the foam after the pour with romex.

Dave
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28 Jun 2007 09:11 AM
well if you decide not to do it, at least do a few where you will have any low voltage (cable,satalite,phone) with all the new technologys coming out it might be wise. i have a dozen or so left over let me know ill let you have them cheap.
WayToGoUser is Offline
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28 Jun 2007 09:54 AM
This box with conduit setup will make it easier for future upgrades of wiring. I'm planning on installing low voltage and AC voltage thru out this home using these boxes.

I didn't like the idea of losing the insulated value of the ICF by cutting thru the foam. There is also cost associated with cutting thru the foam and losing the insulated value of the foam by cutting or burning thru.
fjohnsonUser is Offline
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28 Jun 2007 04:00 PM
you won't lose much if any insulation value of the icf because it's pretty easy and doesn't cost much to use expanding foam to fill in the wiring channels.. virtually no loss.. and night and day faster than running conduit... granted, an update will require cutting the finish wall, sheetrock or what ever, but if planned well, an update should be a long, long way into the future.. and by then, the spouse may want a new paint or texture anyway..  Hey, I hear we're not so far off from wireless electricity anyway.. that'll be my next update, I hope.
WayToGoUser is Offline
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28 Jun 2007 05:18 PM
I've heard of the electricity from air awhile back. Leaves one wondering about the side effects to the atmoshere and environment. I hope it doesn't turn out like the 100 mpg car.

Any other pros and cons of using this system.
eco-hammerUser is Offline
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29 Jun 2007 12:40 AM
My Friends Dad just built an ICF home in Kauai, he used a post and beam style mineral based block, I'm not sure of the brand. Anyway, after he grooved out all his electrical chases and ran his romex, the building inspector made him cover all the chases with nail plates.
dmaceldUser is Offline
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29 Jun 2007 05:57 PM
I had an interesting conversation this morning with the developer of the Plastilock box. He claims to construct over 300 ICF homes a year and uses the box in every one. At the risk of stirring up debate, he is of the opinion that anyone who slams the Plastilock boxes has never used them. He also told me he uses primarily 1/2" conduit as that is more than adequate, by code, for all the runs. He does use 3/4" for phone, cable, etc runs because some of those cables are larger & stiffer.

Here's what I have pretty much concluded, not having constructed my house yet. I plan to use the Plastilock boxes with the following understandings. Material cost for wire, particularly adding in the cost of conduit, will be greater, maybe as much as 2x per foot. The only boxes that are really easy to use, and for sure cheaper than Plastilock, are 18 cu in plastic boxes from the likes of Carlon. When you start getting into adjustable boxes, etc. in Carlon, the price climbs dramatically and Plastilock boxes are competitive. Steel boxes also don't come cheap either. 18 cu in plastic boxes are the only low price boxes I find that are not more than 3" deep. Most are 3 1/4" deep. With 2 1/2" foam and 1/2" drywall you only have 3" to play with. 2, 3, and 4 gang boxes that are multiples of the 18 cu in box are not on the shelf at Lowes & HD. I haven't checked to see if they exist at electrical supply houses. The Plasticlock boxes are available up to 3 gang. Wires enter all the regular boxes at the top and bottom back corners, which means you have to route horizontal run cables in curves to get them in the right orientation. Probably not a big deal, but you can't just run a straight groove directly from the side of one box to the next for horizontal runs. Anchoring regular boxes isn't going to be an instantaneous event either. If you glue them in you'll have to hold them in until the glue or foam sets, especially if the wires are already run into the box. If the wires aren't in the box when you anchor the box then you can probably glue and walk off. But then try to tell me it won't be a b**** to snake wires into them later though.

Now, another consideration. Here is the NEC requirement for protecting romex in grooves.

"Where installed in grooves, to be covered by wallboard, siding, paneling, carpeting, or similar finish, wiring methods shall be protected by 0.0625-inch-thick steel plate, sleeve, or equivalent, a listed steel plate or by not less than 11/4-inch free space for the full length of the groove in which the cable or raceway is installed."

This means you need to cut the groove for romex at least 1 3/4" deep, and then the wire has to lay absolutely flat in it. You ever tried to make romex lay flat? It ain't easy, I can guarantee, especially if you just pull it off the coil without unrolling. So you cut you groove all the way to the concrete. You probably will have to put some sort of anchor in the groove to keep the wire down tight. Depending on your local inspector, you will probably have to have him look at it before you cover it with foam. If it isn't all more than 1 1/4" below the foam surface, you'll have to put a protective plate over it. That's why the fellow in Hawaii had to put steel over his wires, he probably didn't get it to lay more than 1 1/4" below the foam surface. An electrician told me yesterday, around here anyway, inspectors basically don't like DIYers and so make them toe the line to the code. They'll let licensed electricians slide by with a few things. (like maybe depth of the wire in a groove?) Not right, but that's life.

Now tell me all that's faster than pulling wire through conduit.

You can use Smurf tubing to connect the Plastilock boxes but it needs to tied more securely to the block webs, and I'm told it's cheaper than conduit but I'm not sure of that. The developer guy said the main reason he uses PVC conduit is because, like in 6" block, the conduit hugs the back side of the forms and doesn't interfered with the concrete pour.

I plan to use Plastilock boxes because they are made for the job. Makes more sense to me than force fitting a convential construction technique to a different system.


Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help!
fjohnsonUser is Offline
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29 Jun 2007 09:17 PM
I agree.. you're going to be doing it the hard way. It's so easy to cut the foam the full 2 1/2 or 2 3/4" deep for the wire.. it's also easy to attach the boxes to the nailers.. and you can flip the boxes to attach to a nailer on the left or the right which gives you leway on where the outlet or switch box goes...or fasten to the concrete if you have one that you have to move 1" one way or the other (I didn't have any switch or outlet that critical)...why would you want to cut the foam at such a minimum of 1 3/4". I just set a clamp on the end of the chain saw bar to a depth of 2 1/2" and went around the room... cut the rest with a sheetrock saw... vwalla.. done! Where I needed to I made a second groove (thicker cables, kitchen wiring). Used pieces of left over foam to wedge the wires back into the groove every few feet or more... let the inspector see what was being done and then foamed over it. BTW... I'm a DIY.. and the inspector was good to work but I did let him know before hand just how I planned on dealing with the icf and the electrical.. and made sure it was going to pass his inspection.

It may not be faster than pulling wire through conduit... but it's a lot faster than running conduit and then pulling wire through it. And yes.. I've run conduit before...

[quote] "This means you need to cut the groove for romex at least 1 3/4" deep, and then the wire has to lay absolutely flat in it. You ever tried to make romex lay flat? It ain't easy, I can guarantee, especially if you just pull it off the coil without unrolling. So you cut you groove all the way to the concrete. You probably will have to put some sort of anchor in the groove to keep the wire down tight. Depending on your local inspector, you will probably have to have him look at it before you cover it with foam. If it isn't all more than 1 1/4" below the foam surface, you'll have to put a protective plate over it. That's why the fellow in Hawaii had to put steel over his wires, he probably didn't get it to lay more than 1 1/4" below the foam surface. An electrician told me yesterday, around here anyway, inspectors basically don't like DIYers and so make them toe the line to the code. They'll let licensed electricians slide by with a few things. (like maybe depth of the wire in a groove?) Not right, but that's life.

Now tell me all that's faster than pulling wire through conduit."
[/quote]
VinmeisterUser is Offline
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30 Jun 2007 02:10 PM
Last week I installed metal boxes in an icf wall with pvc conduit. It was a TF system wall with 4 inch outside and 2 1/1 inside with a 9 1/2 concrete thickness. I cut the box openings and ran the conduit into the back of the boxes. Standard 1 1/2 deep, tied the conduit and cross braced the boxes to maintain the surface level. Concrete is curing and I see no problems as of yet. Not only that If I wanted to add or expand the system I could strip the sheetrock in the future and add conduit or romex in the future in the thickness of the foam. A 1/2 raised plate will finish off the boxes before sheetrock and I'll be good to go. To enter the loop I will collar the box directll under the electrical panel and pipe down ito it as I will have to frame out around the panel anyway. This will allow me to enter the loop in either dirction as I installed 3/4 pipe.
RobertsonUser is Offline
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02 Jul 2007 12:49 AM
Posted By walltech on 06/29/2007 8:15 PM
Hey, just do it the hard way! Ans next time don't ask!

Dave
It's pretty funny when someone offers their opinion, and after they make their godly pronouncements, they expect the thread to end, or better yet, a string of thank-you's and compliments on the opinion-makers genius.

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02 Jul 2007 01:36 AM

Posted By Robertson on 07/02/2007 12:49 AM
Posted By walltech on 06/29/2007 8:15 PM
Hey, just do it the hard way! Ans next time don't ask!

Dave
It's pretty funny when someone offers their opinion, and after they make their godly pronouncements, they expect the thread to end, or better yet, a string of thank-you's and compliments on the opinion-makers genius.

Or, sometimes we are all equally hard headed and set in our opinions that we know it's hopeless to try to change the other's mind! :-)

Or, maybe we're still pondering the value of the fiercely offered opposing opinion.

But in any case, what specific boxes do you guys use, especially for multiple gang? Every box I see on the Carlon web site and Lowes & HD shelf, except for the single gang plastic 18 cu in box with the attached nailer, is either too deep to fit in the 2 1/2" of foam plus 1/2" of wall board, or is so shallow that putting in a motion detector switch, or dimmer, or GFCI outlet, along with the 3 or 4 sets of 12 ga wires is an exercise in frustration in trying to compress everything into the box.


Do inspectors accept the foam overlay in the groove as meeting the code requirement for fastening a romex within 8" of a single gang plastic box, or do you only use boxes with cable clamps?


Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help!
WayToGoUser is Offline
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02 Jul 2007 11:46 AM
Plastilock has the adapter for mounting Raco Metal Boxes (either for single, double or triple gang metal boxes) or the single or double or triple in plastic for the ICF wall system.

The plastilock boxes are approxiamately 3 inches deep.
walltechUser is Offline
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02 Jul 2007 08:15 PM
Robertson, there's a difference between offering and being asked. Offering is when you speak up via a conversation, being asked is when someone post and ask the opinions of those who follow this site. As you can see you have posted 19 times and I suspect you have interest in Plastilock. The bottom line is we don't have time to sugar coat all questions so sometimes we have to give our blunt decision. If you where to research this subject on this site you would find the same opinion. We as professionals do not want conduit in the wall when its not necessary, nor are we electricians and want to wait for one to show up to do layout. It's not practical to wire residential ICF this way as posted at the top. Simple as that!
mac mcguireUser is Offline
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05 Jul 2007 11:15 AM
Congradulations on doing the research about the Plastilock system. This system is the absolute best there is, and the only time it takes longer to install is maybe the first time. Cutting and patching in the foam is not a quality way to wire a house, but the only thing some, not most, of the icf builders care about is speed. The conduit system, 1/2 or 3/4, is by far, very far, the best way to go. If the electrician can't see this, or doesn't know how to install conduit in a timely fashion, find one who can. It's not hard to install, and in fact will save you tremendous time at the later stages of the project.
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05 Jul 2007 02:37 PM
Posted By dmaceld on 07/02/2007 1:36 AM


Do inspectors accept the foam overlay in the groove as meeting the code requirement for fastening a romex within 8" of a single gang plastic box, or do you only use boxes with cable clamps?







I'm a homeowner.  In our Amvic house, the electricians simply routed the romex thru the ripped out channel, then up-behind-a-tie-down again in an upside down V, before they ran it into each box.

Like this, using a long wall as an example:    

_______________________^ ______________________^____Box_________________________^__________________^___Box

etc. etc.

The romex was held securely for inspection. They did this along the entire runs of walls.  It then did not require any foam spritzes at all.  The friction-fit kept it snug, and running it up/down behind a tie as a  ___^___  every so often gave it extra "security."

By the way, it was the first ICF house they ever did... and I thought it was quite ingenious!
jperiodUser is Offline
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05 Jul 2007 10:32 PM
I have a couple of questions about using these plasic lock boxes and conduit. Does having 1/2" conduit in the concrete wall compromise in anyway the structural integrity of the wall? Does the conduit interfere with the proper placement of the concrete in the  blocks?

Thanks

JW
DallasBillUser is Offline
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05 Jul 2007 10:51 PM

The things I find most amusing about their site, as a homeowner, are two things:

  • Higher Profits for ICF Contractors - as a homeowner, this is not my mission
  • More Benefits for ICF Homeowners - as a homeowner, I see none

    They spend a lot of pages at their site telling how great it is for structured wiring.  Well, I'm not about to run structured wiring the same way I run electrical.  I run structured wiring after all my interior stick is up, and from wiring closet to points in a fan-out config, the shortest route possible.  Do you know how much 1/2 in conduit it would take to run 3 coax, and 3 cat-6 the conduit way -- all around the perimeter of my ICF walls!?  And the cost to me?  OUTRAGEOUS!  Plus, there is NO WAY I want my electrical anywhere near my structured wiring due to interference.

    As a home audio-video nut/expert, that's about all I can say.

  • dmaceldUser is Offline
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    06 Jul 2007 02:10 AM
    I'm still kicking around the pros and cons of each method and haven't decided for absolute certain which way I'm going to go. I'm still waiting for one of the surface wiring advocates to give me info on what multiple gang boxes they use that has enough room to accommodate the myriad deep devices without having to forcefully cram the device and wires into the box. I've put enough of those things into typical 1 3/4" or 2" deep boxes with 12 ga wires to know I don't want to do again!

    As for structured wiring I don't know what I want to install where. I plan to take care of that by putting boxes, with conduit stubs into the crawl space, along interior and exterior walls and blank cover them. Or, I might cram a wad of aluminum foil into the box and cover it with the drywall and then use a stud finder to locate one when I want to use it. I might do that near the ceiling also with conduit stubs into the attic.

    One reason why the Plastilock developer/owner is so adamant about the value of his boxes is because he told me he conduit wires the entire house. I also read on the JLC Forum where some electricians conduit wire all their homes in the Chicago area I think it is. That's even in the areas outside of Chicago where code doesn't require it. I think it's Chicago which requires all homes to be conduit wired. You won't find agreement between the conduit and romex advocates in that crowd either! And ICF isn't even part of the equation!





    Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help!
    DallasBillUser is Offline
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    06 Jul 2007 10:00 AM

    Hey... I'm all for conduit for structured wiring if you want to "future proof" but you really have to decide what you want and how much it will add to resale if you are not going to be there for 40 years.

    1/2 inch conduit is not conducive to running paired coax through -- esp. with the bends I see in their product video.  And if you have a dual-tuner TiVo then you want 3 coax so you can also do an antenna if you want -- that's future proof.  Then, you also have to have another conduit to run at least 2 cat-6 for network and phone to those same locations, plus more -- that's future proof. 

    Thus, instead of 1 labor run for all of that -- either in a 2 in plastic conduit (cheap irrigation pipe or similar) or "free-form" like we did, you have twice the "pull labor" and twice the initial install labor with this product.  It does not make a bit of sense to me. 

    One can cheaply future-proof a house for any and all A/V and network without the labor and expense of adding this product.  And if one is really anal-future-proof, then run a 2 inch conduit from the wiring center, along the attic ceiling, to every room's interior wall where it meets the ceiling -- and you're done.

    The electrical is up to you.

    mac mcguireUser is Offline
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    08 Jul 2007 08:30 AM

    ok, dallas, heres the deal: using conduit is not just about "future-proofing" the structure, it's about doing the job right. placing all wiring and cable in conduit is the only way you can do a commercial job. why/ because it's right. therefore, when doing an ICF structure, which is more of a commercial building type, do it the way it is done on all concrete jobs. I am not attacking any method, and typically low voltage wiring doesn't count anyway because its not true wiring. but, if all the electrical is done right, which is with conduit, then the electrician should just go ahead and do all the systems that way. 1 3/4" conduit is all that is needed to each phone, catv, or other low voltage outlet. all electricians can do all audio and video themselves, but if the builder or owner wish to have a seperate contractor do it, then all they have to do is pull the proper cable through the conduit. it is by far the best and easiest way to do it.

    Mac

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    08 Jul 2007 07:41 PM
    Posted By mac mcguire on 07/08/2007 8:30 AM

    ok, dallas, heres the deal: using conduit is not just about "future-proofing" the structure, it's about doing the job right. placing all wiring and cable in conduit is the only way you can do a commercial job. why/ because it's right. therefore, when doing an ICF structure, which is more of a commercial building type, do it the way it is done on all concrete jobs. I am not attacking any method, and typically low voltage wiring doesn't count anyway because its not true wiring. but, if all the electrical is done right, which is with conduit, then the electrician should just go ahead and do all the systems that way. 1 3/4" conduit is all that is needed to each phone, catv, or other low voltage outlet. all electricians can do all audio and video themselves, but if the builder or owner wish to have a seperate contractor do it, then all they have to do is pull the proper cable through the conduit. it is by far the best and easiest way to do it.

    Mac


    Gee, Mac... 4 posts since April... and every single one of them defending conduit.  See Mac's only 4 lifetime posts defending conduit here
    Does that mean you sell conduit, Mac?

    Beyond that, your comments (bolded above) that conduit is "doing the job right" and is "[doing it ] the way it is done on all concrete jobs" is so patently hilarious I could cry.  Mac... please tell all the pros here why they have been planning and stacking and pouring and building homes the wrong way for the past umpteen years. 

    Please tell me, too, because I'm typing this via a wireless laptop on my porch, working via a wired repeater in our master suite, done using structured cabling in the attic that was done wrongly.  I need to know why it's working so well when it was done so incorrectly!  I want to tell my great ICF pro here why he steered my architect wrong, so he can do it your "correct" way next time!

    And, saying "all electricians can do audio and video" is like saying all heart surgeons treat sore throats.  I have yet to meet an electrician that knows ANYTHING practical about planning, mapping and future-proofing a home for networks, the Internet and A/V.  If they DID, they would be running such a business instead, at 3X the money they make doing electrical work!

    And for you to say that 1 3/4" conduit will accomodate all that's necessary -- well all I can say is: have a nice life selling conduit to dummies.  Hint:  there's a book title there for you.  But it will take more than 4 conduit-selling posts to write.  

    WolfCandy3xUser is Offline
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    08 Jul 2007 11:22 PM
    dmaceld...

    I've had to run electrical boxes in my ICF house ... What a bitch !! The easy part is routing the wires.. ( Router ) but attaching the
    boxes to the concrete is wayyyyy to long and time consuming for the average joe. Don't forget alot of guys here a pros and will give
    you opinion bases on their experience sometime forgettting that you are a noob to all this and lack the experience.

    So when we built my friends house last year, we opted for Plastilock also. The only thing we did is drill the side of the boxes and ran the wire
    from the side ( My friend didn't want to invest the $$ for all the tubing ). Everything went fine and fast.

    I'm building myself another icf house and will be using plastilock also. maybe from the side ou using the tubing.. still dont know about that...

    Francis
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    09 Jul 2007 01:11 AM
    Posted By WolfCandy3x on 07/08/2007 11:22 PM
    dmaceld...
    The only thing we did is drill the side of the boxes and ran the wire
    from the side ( My friend didn't want to invest the $$ for all the tubing ).
    The inspector didn't call you on it? Changing the box to, or using it in a, configuration not in accordance with its UL listed and tested configuration could get you into trouble. This is based on comments by electricians on other forums. I just tried to find a specific reference in the NEC but couldn't find it. Play it safe, use the box the way it was designed to be used.

    Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help!
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    09 Jul 2007 01:42 AM
    Future proofing for A/V, networking, etc. is certainly a desirable goal. The problem is, the future keeps changing! What, about 15 years ago you wouldn't have found Cat 5 in the average, or upper middle class home, anywhere. Then probably 10 years ago it hit the home networking business big time. Probably every future-proof high class home had Cat 5 strung all over the place. Now, to a great extent it's being usurped by wireless. Fifteen or 20 years ago the smart builder would have run 8 or 10 ga heavy duty Monster Cable to the top of the living room walls to power those huge speakers that were so popular then. (I've still got a pair of Bose 901s!) Then comes along the subwoofer system with the small discreet tweeters on the wall, right in front of those, oh so hip, huge wires dangling unused from the wall!

    30 years ago or so, telcos used to come in and prewire a home at no charge to be ready for the future of telephony. They ran a wide ribbon cable on top of the studs throughout the house so you could punch a hole in the wall most anywhere and tap into a phone wire pair. Now, how many plug-in phones do most homes have, 1, 2, and 4 to 10 cordless phones scattered around. And those are disappearng as folks switch more and more to cell phone only. Ah yes, planning for the future is grand!

    I sure ain't going to let myself get wrapped around the axle about installing all the latest and greatest in home A/V and networking wiring, because I'm not using much of it now myself, and who knows what's coming down the pike?

    I'll spend a few bucks for boxes and conduit stub ups into the attic and crawl space and figure it was a good investment if 20% get used in the next five years!


    Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help!
    vermarajUser is Offline
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    09 Jul 2007 10:09 AM
    We don't use the plastilock boxes as they seem a bit expensive. However we do run everything electrical (power, comms, video, sound, fiber, lighting control, alarm, etc...) in conduit. We have a simple method of running the conduit that does not slow down the erecting or pouring crews. It also lends itself to panelized construction, which we are using for the first time this month.

    The construction system we use is a speedfloor/hambro type suspended deck and vertical icf product. We assemble 30-40' section including all electrical penetrations and horizontal reinforcing steel. The electrician runs the conduit (pvc) in a loop from the back of the electrical box to an elevation 2" below the bottom of the suspended deck. The conduit is cut 3/4" proud of the interior foam and then protected by a piece of 3/4" plywood; drilled for the conduit and screwed to the closest web. In this way the conduit is protected and does not interfere with placement crews on the scaffold.

    After the pour the electrician removes the plywood, glues a coupling to the conduit stub and proceeds to continue his run in the open joist bays. Usually we place pull boxes in the closet ceilings to keep the individual runs short and to increase wire pulling efficiency. Then everything is run to utility rooms in large conduits.

    It's been our experience that this method is faster than the chainsaw method and pretty much dollar neutral with running romex through the walls, when all labor costs are figured in. Client feedback has been very positive.

    This system saved us a great deal of money when some lighting control wires got cooked in a lightning storm and had to be removed and replaced. Cost $200, versus tearing out plaster/blue board or rerouting.

    The downside is that the electrical design must be completed and agreed upon before the icf is erected. Also if you have a client that keeps changing the interior then you may end up with conduits in the middle of partitions (not a big problem) or a code compliance issue to deal with.
    walltechUser is Offline
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    10 Jul 2007 09:49 PM
    Wolf, Dallas And Mac, I agree with Dallas we have seen Macs post before and we can plainly see he is a Electrician that has came on to this forum late and doesn't understand it. It's plainly obvious that the majority doesn't use conduit for stick frame construction or ICF. Wolf, why would you take the time to attach your boxes to the concrete???? And then claim you did! That would be like some one pouring 1000ft of ICF wall on a concrete floor and tapa-coning ( concrete screws) all bracing to the floor with two screws when they could glue a block of would to the floor and screw to that in a matter of minutes. Yes both methods work, but the concrete screws are time consuming and they both work equally. I understand as a non professional that many of you out there have not had the experience to try things like this but this is what we are here for to help and answer to your questions. As far as any questions go as to the conduit impeding concrete flow it doesn't help in a DUI pour, and who would want to wait for pre-pour wiring when its not necessary. Its so easy to install wiring in a ICF properly without conduit the wire is the same distance from the face of the RO as wood ( or further) and attaches to the ICF studs in seconds. I think I'll shoot you a video to prove it.

    Dave


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    11 Jul 2007 07:59 AM
    Hi walltech,

    When I first built my house in 2000, Plastilock were unknow to me and my basement was done in ICF as a first try project to determine easyness and all...
    When I finished my basement 2 years later I had to run electrical/network/phone/sat so I used regular electrica boxes with tapcon to attach them to the concrete.

    The boxes were never straight, pre-drill than screw arghhhh nightmare.... maybe i was lacking the experience and the know how....

    But when we built my friends house Plastilock were out, so we used them but the idea of spending all that time and money on conduits wasn't appealing. So instead
    we had the girls drill the boxes sides through and through and put wire nubs so the boxes were install and when the pour was all done we simply routed the wires from
    one box to the other like you would do regulary...

    We saved ourselve the work of the steel boxes drill/tapcon and then we saved the time/money of conduits.. And yes the inspector gave us the ok since the boxes
    are plastic and we used wire nubs..

    Wolf
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    11 Jul 2007 08:40 AM
    Apparently your local ICF support wasn't very electrical savvy, they could have pointed you to a screw on box, .89 cents at home-depot that is 3" deep and screws right to the ICF tie/stud. Thanks for the input.

    Dave
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    11 Jul 2007 10:15 AM
    Posted By dmaceld on 07/09/2007 1:42 AM
    I'll spend a few bucks for boxes and conduit stub ups into the attic and crawl space and figure it was a good investment if 20% get used in the next five years!

    Posted By dmaceld on 06/29/2007 5:57 PM
    I plan to use Plastilock boxes because they are made for the job. Makes more sense to me than force fitting a convential construction technique to a different system.




    With PlastiLock boxes, these are the only UL listed approved for ICF wall construction, as for a first time ICF home builder this was a big plus and with the option for future upgrades this was another big plus (A++) . 

    Conduit, I plan on using 1/2" conduits for the strikers (window and doors) on the alarm system too. It seems on other forums the option for replacing wire or testing the system for breaks in wire is a good option.

    The electrician and myself are running the electrical boxes (plastilock) as shown in their videos and stubing out the electrical series and PVC of each electrical boxs in their series to a common interior wall. Where the interior wall studs joins the ICF wall. Drill a hole for the PVC to stub into stud. Then run wire in series to each box on common interior wall and back to home run (panel box) while meeting all electrical codes.

    With computer, communication, and electrical technology changing in the future, the option for future upgrades was another reason for using these boxes. I'm not using much of the wireless electronics as for radio wave interference and cut off communication between the reciever and transmitter at this time.

    Will be running 12 volt system in the interior and exterior of home too.




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    11 Jul 2007 10:21 AM
    Very True Walltech.

    But that was the least of his problem... The ICF supplier/contractor I dealt with actually left me to rot by leaving me with an unfinished house to which
    i had to complete kitchens, exterior stone work and Novabrik, decks, wiring etc etc... I sued him for a big amount and won 5 years later. but when the 4 inspection
    were done they all came to -+ 185k or corrective work and compensation...

    That's why I'm building myself the next one... :) 7 Years ago you didn't have all the expertise at the fingertip like today, with site and knowledge you guy's bring..

    Wolf
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    11 Jul 2007 01:17 PM
    walltech, would like to see the video.
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    12 Jul 2007 01:40 PM
    Any electrical box connection ideas for the IntegraSpec form specifically? That form has an integrated "waffle" type pattern on the inside edges that allow the concrete to come back in towards the structure's interior about .25", thus preventing the attaching of the 3" Carlon box sold at Home Depot (the flange sits away from the interior foam edge about that 1/4").

    I was planning on sighing heavily and use 1x3 scrap pieces behind metal boxes and using tapcons to get the boxes mounted.

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    14 Jul 2007 06:48 PM
    WayToGo coming soon!

    Dave


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