Clark
Basic Member
Posts:248
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| 20 Sep 2009 12:21 PM |
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As an owner/builder, I'm in the final stages of building my ICF house. I thought some members of this forum will be interested in what it cost me to build with ICF. If so, read on.
It's a single story house of 2200 sq. ft. and a full basement. The plan is moderately complex with 14 corners and 4 T intersections. I used TF System vertical ICF forms - 8" for the foundations and 6" for the above ground walls. The gross wall area is 5300 sq. ft. with moderate window and door area framed with pressure treated lumber.
Material cost:
ICF forms 19,000
Rebar 2,200
Concrete 8,500
Waterproof 600
Lumber 400
Bracing/Scaf 1,300
Pumper 1,900
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33,900
Labor cost: 20,000
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Total $53,900
That's $10.17/sf.
The labor cost of $20K is a quote for the job. Actually, my son and I erected the forms ourselves with the help of an experienced ICF installer and saved $15,700 in labor costs. That reduced my out-of-pocket cost to $7.20/sf.
The question I always get is, "How does that compare to standard stick construction?"
I didn't bother getting quotes for a standard poured concrete foundation and a conventional 2x4 or 2x6 frame.
I'm sure the cost would be less, but it wouldn't mean anything since I'd be comparing apples to oranges.
Anyone have cost data to share for your project?
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 Attachment: House Final Grade.jpg
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Hoowood
New Member
Posts:78
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| 21 Sep 2009 06:40 AM |
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If I devide $53,900 by 2200sf my number is $24,50 |
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smartwall
Veteran Member
Posts:1197
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| 21 Sep 2009 07:19 AM |
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Did you do the gables with ICF's ? |
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jmagill
Basic Member
Posts:371
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| 21 Sep 2009 07:32 AM |
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Posted By Hoowood on 09/21/2009 6:40 AM
If I devide $53,900 by 2200sf my number is $24,50
I think he is quoting square foot of wall, as most ICF companies do. |
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Clark
Basic Member
Posts:248
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| 21 Sep 2009 08:18 AM |
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Posted By smartwall on 09/21/2009 7:19 AM
Did you do the gables with ICF's ? No, the gables and roof are stick built, and so are the garages which have conventional poured concrete frost walls. Those decisions were driven by my overall project budget. How do my ICF construction costs here in northern Illinois compare to elsewhere in the country? |
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Hoowood
New Member
Posts:78
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| 21 Sep 2009 11:15 AM |
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Better take it out when people like you don´t like an information |
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The Sipper
Basic Member
Posts:264
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| 21 Sep 2009 12:29 PM |
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Hoowood, the man has already built his home, and is sharing information with others regarding cost. It looks to me like you're making a pretty hard sales pitch here, posting prices, and your contact information. On another thread, you were chastizing others for doing the same thing, even though no one on that thread was nearly as aggressive as you are here. |
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| The Sipper |
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dwangle
New Member
Posts:78
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| 21 Sep 2009 06:41 PM |
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Beautiful house! How do you like it so far? Welcome to the ICF homeowner club. :) |
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| ICF for life |
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Hoowood
New Member
Posts:78
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| 22 Sep 2009 02:19 AM |
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Posted By The Sipper on 09/21/2009 12:29 PM
Hoowood, the man has already built his home, and is sharing information with others regarding cost. It looks to me like you're making a pretty hard sales pitch here, posting prices, and your contact information. On another thread, you were chastizing others for doing the same thing, even though no one on that thread was nearly as aggressive as you are here. [/quote]
Sipper
Can not see your experience...but agressive means something else than BS |
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Earl
New Member
Posts:16
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| 22 Sep 2009 08:44 AM |
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Clark, thank you! As someone in the planning stages of an icf home now, that kind of information is very, very helpful. Thanks for sharing. |
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angdeer
New Member
Posts:5
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| 22 Sep 2009 09:23 AM |
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Real nice place. Never have I seen a double garage but separated like you did. Almost didn't even notice the one to the right, good idea. That way the garage doesn't look bigger than the house! |
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Clark
Basic Member
Posts:248
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| 22 Sep 2009 01:15 PM |
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Posted By angdeer on 09/22/2009 9:23 AM
Real nice place. Never have I seen a double garage but separated like you did. Almost didn't even notice the one to the right, good idea. That way the garage doesn't look bigger than the house! Thanks. Also, the garage door is 10' high to accomodate my 22' Class B motorhome. Every other design made the garage door stand out and spoil the appearance of the house. |
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Dug
New Member
Posts:45
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| 23 Sep 2009 12:35 AM |
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Nice house, Clark!
I finished my house in August and the materials cost ran $6.50 per square foot (of wall space). It's been a while since I ran my comparative numbers, but if I recall correctly, I spent about $2,000 more with ICF over conventional building.
I went with 6.25 Logix on the basement and first floor and doubled my steel (every 16 inches rather than 32 inches) and upped my concrete to 4000 psi. |
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vhehn
New Member
Posts:91
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| 23 Sep 2009 05:47 PM |
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nice curb appeal |
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Earl
New Member
Posts:16
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| 24 Sep 2009 10:02 AM |
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How many man-hours did it take for your crew to set up, rebar, brace, and pour the walls? |
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Hoowood
New Member
Posts:78
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| 24 Sep 2009 10:19 AM |
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Posted By Earl on 09/24/2009 10:02 AM
How many man-hours did it take for your crew to set up, rebar, brace, and pour the walls?
I shows again that DIY´s can do it as good if not better than the "pro´s" but if the DIY is doing it he saves what the pro names profit.  |
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Donnerwetter
Basic Member
Posts:100
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| 24 Sep 2009 10:28 AM |
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Clark |
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Donnerwetter
Basic Member
Posts:100
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| 24 Sep 2009 10:41 AM |
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ooops
Clark - the house really looks good!!! How did the pour treat you - in perticular the TF system. Haven't had the opportunity to use or see the TF system during a pour - but I am courious (from a DYI standpoint). As to the overall price you are well within the norm (@ +/- $10.00 maybe a little less than average) than what an ICF contractor would charge...but than my people want just a tad more than 60 minutes an hour :) |
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Clark
Basic Member
Posts:248
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| 24 Sep 2009 03:20 PM |
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Posted By Donnerwetter on 09/24/2009 10:41 AM
ooops
Clark - the house really looks good!!! How did the pour treat you - in perticular the TF system. Haven't had the opportunity to use or see the TF system during a pour - but I am courious (from a DYI standpoint). As to the overall price you are well within the norm (@ +/- $10.00 maybe a little less than average) than what an ICF contractor would charge...but than my people want just a tad more than 60 minutes an hour :) The pour went extremely well. I was cautious enough to hire an experienced TF System installer to check out my bracing and help me with the pour of the foundation. He charged a flat $500 for doing that. We used a conveyor, standard wall mix (3/4" aggregate) with a 4 to 5" slump. Three lifts to fill the 7.5" x 10' forms. We had no blowouts; not even a bulge in the forms. We had to increase the slump to get the concrete to flow under the steel basement window bucks (no slot in sill to inject concrete) and, still, the forms stayed strong. Couldn't locate a 1" vibrator with an 8' whip for the life of me, so we ended up consolidating by use of a rod and hammering the sides of the forms. All indications are that worked fine. On the above grade (5.5" x 9') walls, I used 4000 psi concrete, pea gravel aggregate, and a pumper. To save money, I hired a local concrete laborer to help with the pour (his first ICF pour.) I told him what to do. Concrete placement went even smoother than the basement walls. The pumper operator could control the flow through a 3" nozzle (no double 90 was used.) The pumper operator said it was one of the easiest ICF pours he'd ever done. Three hours from start to finish. TF System forms are really easy and fun to put up. Not much bracing is called for. Rebar is easy to put in, tie and inspect f you put the inside panels in last. Most of the work is done from the ground. I didn't keep accurate records of the labor needed to put up the forms. It took six days to erect the foundation wall forms and 10 days to do the main floor walls (lots of window and door bucks.) Not very fast, but I remember that the weather was in the 90's most days and we were learning as we went. It also included inserting PVC conduit in the forms and erecting our homemade scaffolding. I estimate a total of about 350 to 400 man-hours, 50 of which was for professional help. |
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jdebree
Basic Member
Posts:497
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| 24 Sep 2009 03:55 PM |
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Clark- That's excellent, practical information, and the house looks great! I'm planning a DIY ICF basement (and maybe walls) and info like you give is hard to come by. Thanks! |
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retired1
New Member
Posts:29
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| 25 Sep 2009 10:17 AM |
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Clark- I'm interested in using the TF Forms also. Could you post a picture of your homemade scaffolding? Or can you describe how you built and attached them? Thanks! |
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Clark
Basic Member
Posts:248
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| 25 Sep 2009 08:05 PM |
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Posted By retired1 on 09/25/2009 10:17 AM
Clark- I'm interested in using the TF Forms also. Could you post a picture of your homemade scaffolding? Or can you describe how you built and attached them? Thanks! Yes, I can post some pictures. Give me a day or two. |
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Clark
Basic Member
Posts:248
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| 27 Sep 2009 12:00 AM |
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When building with TF System, I was faced with the decision of how to brace the forms and provide scaffolding for doing the pour. It's possible to rent bracing/scaffolding designed specifically for ICF construction. The guys at TF System showed us an aluminum brace/scaffold device that works really well. They quoted a price of $7 per brace per week. I figured that I needed 40 braces over a period of about a month. I was looking at a cost well over $1000 plus the cost of shipping the braces back to Green Bay when I finished with them. I simply couldn’t fit that into my budget.
I decided to make my own braces out of 2x4 lumber and plywood. As you can see in the pictures, each unit is a vertical 2x4 (strongback) cut to a length of 8’-10” (my foundation walls are 10'.) The scaffold bracket is made out of a 2’ length of 2x4 and two triangular pieces of ½” exterior grade plywood (I recommend fir instead of pine for strength and rot resistance.) Each bracket is screwed together with 22 1-1/2" drywall screws. Another length of 2x4 provides the kickout brace. I bought some turnbuckes for about half of the kickouts to make straightening the forms at mid-wall easier during the pour. You can get by without them, though. Two rows of 2x8 planks were screwed to the bracket arms to provide a wide, strong walking surface all around the interior of the wall.
Each strongback rested on the footing (or deck for the main floor) and was screwed to the ICF PVC I-beam with three 3-1/2" drywall screws. The length of the strongback was cut accurately so that later it would support the 14” deep LVL ledger board to which the floor joists are attached. These LVLs are quite heavy, so having the strongbacks to support them while they are being bolted to the Simpson Strong Tie ledger board connectors was really helpful.
I reused the strongback braces when building the 9’ above grade walls in similar fashion. When it was time to frame the roof, I used these braces again as shown in the last picture to set the ridge boards and provide footing for installing the rafters. These homemade braces were very sturdy and resulted in a very solid scaffold.
The material cost for the 40 braces was about $350 plus the cost of 16 turnbuckles which I plan to resell on eBay, if I ever get around to it. When I was finally finished with the braces, I disassembled them and reused the 2x4s for framing the soffits and for miscellaneous blocking. The screws were also reused. The 80 plywood triangles (equivalent of 5 sheets of 4x8 plywood) were disgarded.
If I build another ICF house, I'll use the same method.
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Attachment: Main Floor Scaffolding.jpg
Attachment: Roof Framing.jpg
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njohnson
New Member
Posts:6
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| 27 Feb 2011 08:36 AM |
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Clark the house looks great. I'm in the initial planning stages of possibly going ICF TF by myself. I'll be helped by an experienced builder who has done the same before.
My question is:
When calculating wall SQ FT for your house. Do you include interior AND exterior of all the walls that will be ICF? My original guess is "no." Thanks for any insight.
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Clark
Basic Member
Posts:248
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| 27 Feb 2011 09:24 AM |
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Posted By njohnson on 27 Feb 2011 08:36 AM
My question is:
When calculating wall SQ FT for your house. Do you include interior AND exterior of all the walls that will be ICF? My original guess is "no." Thanks for any insight.
Just the exterior. My experience with TF Systems is that you supply a plan of your proposed house to them and they will calculate the materials needed to build it. They have a computer program that estimates the material needs, as well. It takes into account the area of doors and windows, number of corners and total length of wall. They over-estimated my materials to ensure that I had enough, explaining that to have to buy a few extra lengths of EPS and/or ties to finish the job before a scheduled pour can be costly. I used the extra foam to insulate part of my garage floor. Remember, keeping the 'studs' 1' O.C. around windows and doors uses up extra material, but helps when time comes to install the wall finish (e.g., drywall). Clark |
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njohnson
New Member
Posts:6
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| 27 Feb 2011 10:36 AM |
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Thanks Clark. It's amazing how many options there are when it comes to construction. TF DIY sounds like the way to go for me at about $8-$10 /sq ft. Especially when that covers nearly all insulation costs. It then seems like minimal interior framing is needed.
My current plan that I'm thinking about building is about 26' X 64' two story with one small jog on one of the walls.
One issue is the attached garage with future finished bonus room. I'm debating whether or not to stick build it and insulate really well. The extra ICF seems like it would put me over my budget. The plan is a 3 car garage which is about 32 X 25 with (I think) 9 ft ceilings in the gtarge and 8 ft ceilings in the bonus room. That's a whole lot of extra wall sq ft. Thoughts?
Also, is it possible to have 6" walls all the way up, basement included. Or, does the basement need to be 8" to support the weight of two floors?
Thanks
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Clark
Basic Member
Posts:248
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| 27 Feb 2011 12:37 PM |
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My advice: Stick to your budget as much as possible, you're likely to overspend anyway by 10 to 15% due to unanticipated expenses. To save money I chose to stick build my garage(s), having decided that the extra energy efficiency wasn't needed there. A wood-framed structure can be built as energy efficient as ICF if that's your only objective. The added strength and sound absorbing qualities of ICF walls was something I compromised on for the garages to stay on budget.
I used 10' x 8" walls below grade and 9' x 6" above. The thicker wall below grade was chosen to withstand the lateral pressure of the surrounding soil. Remember to reinforce the walls with rebar per TF or your engineer's recommendations. |
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njohnson
New Member
Posts:6
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| 27 Feb 2011 12:44 PM |
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That sounds like just what I'm planning on doing. My foundation is fairly simple so nothing like your 14 corners. Do you think a two story will be more cost than a one story? Probably pretty comparable. I'll probably go 8' and 8" on basement, 9' and 6" on 1st floor and 8' and 6" on 2nd story. Any tips for windows, doors and bracing. I looked through he TF guide and it seemed like they've include lots of good information.
What type of HVAC system do you have?
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