Nudura Inserts
Last Post 14 May 2014 06:06 PM by eric monkman. 58 Replies.
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eric monkmanUser is Offline
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18 Apr 2014 12:58 PM
I am looking for feedback on anyone who has used the Nudura Insert to create a higher performing R value system.

I am actually wondering if they truly exist or whether it is a website marketing ploy :-)

Been asking my Nudura supplier for 3 months now for a sample and been copying a company rep. GETTING FRUSTRATED. You'd think by now....................................
BrucePolycreteUser is Offline
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18 Apr 2014 01:14 PM
I don't know anything about the Nudura insert, but PolycreteUSA makes a 2' x 8' (16 sqft) insert. Standard sizes are 2.5" and 4", but we can theoretically go as much as 18" thick (don't know why anyone would want 18", but it's the limit of our technology). Sixteen square feet installs in 5 seconds (See video on website). There's info on the website and pictures on the Facebook page.
billnaegeliUser is Offline
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18 Apr 2014 01:37 PM
most of the ICF manufacturers are getting on board with the foam insert and the foam companies will LOVE selling you more foam, we are actually doing one inMaryland close to DC by Quadlock, it is a big time overkill if you ask me. part of the reason why people are leaning towards more insulation(1) well the foam manufacturers are promoting it(2) the owner is not satisfied with the "Stated R-Value", from the manufacturer, it is a win-win for the foam companies. However, the process is rather simple- in theory, just drop 2 more inches into the wall, (in our case 4"), i just dont know if the extra cost is going to be captured and if so how long is the payback, it just seems to put more burden on a good system that is at its local maxima anyways. it would take some serious math to prove to me that it is worth the extra time and money, but hey it cant hurt, just make sure you put it on the outside of the wall!
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eric monkmanUser is Offline
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19 Apr 2014 10:22 AM
Personally I think it is a great idea , especially if you are heating with Electricity and in Ontario.

But...trying to get a sample of the insert is like pulling hen's teeth.
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19 Apr 2014 02:21 PM
Want more continuous exterior insulation, use the Nudura +

Here in the southeast I will be using the Nudura + with 3-5/8" | 6" Core | 2-5/8" configuration.
The key to enhancing an ICF wall is protecting the concrete core from outdoor temps.

Inserts would require more labor...
LbearUser is Offline
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19 Apr 2014 03:51 PM
The Nudura + system comes with the added EPS insulation already attached to the form. Like mentioned, it reduces labor to have it already attached:

Nudura + PDF


They even have it up to R-48 (8.5" EPS x 6" concrete x 2.5" EPS). That would make one thick 17" wall.

I would say that the standard 2.5" EPS x 6" concrete x 2.5" EPS (R-23) will be sufficient up to Zone 4. In Zones 5+ I can see adding the extra 2" + to bump the R-Value up to R-32 or higher but one would have to crunch the #'s to see if it is worth the extra cost.

Do the attachment strips extend all the way through or are they buried behind all that extra foam?


billnaegeliUser is Offline
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19 Apr 2014 04:57 PM
Well you could also look at the LOGIX Platinum series for extra R-Value as well
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kromUser is Offline
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19 Apr 2014 06:34 PM
fox has had inserts for quite a while too
BrucePolycreteUser is Offline
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20 Apr 2014 10:36 AM
Fox's inserts are 8 inches. Polycrete's are 8 feet. Big difference. Polycrete offers a Neopor version for the ICF itself and/or the insert, too.
eric monkmanUser is Offline
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20 Apr 2014 11:50 AM
Thanks for all the reponses guys !

Seems as tho no one has "actual" experience with Nudura Inserts, which was the purpose of this thread :-)

My opinions for what they are worth on a couple of the tangents.
1. To me the plus series is designed to keep heat out, and would be very useful in the Southern Hemisphere. It doesn't look as tho the attachment bars go to the exterior,
leaving acrylic stucco as your only siding option.
2. Being from the North, I am more interested in keeping heat in and like the idea of placing inserts on the interior/warm side and keeping all attachment bars available.
3. Nudura uses at least 30% less manpower to build than Logix or Fox, so although I like the Neo and other aspects , but it does come down to actual labour hours.
TexasICFUser is Offline
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20 Apr 2014 01:43 PM
Eric, I've only used them as a chase -- e.g. if you want to cut out for a larger pipe later it's pretty easy to run them up the wall in one area and then cut form later if needed.

The problem you are having might be your rep cause Nudura has been using them in Europe for 5-6 years.

Interesting that you mention the "purpose of the thread" --- at one time this was a great place to post ideas. I had a customer that put hours and hours into this thread posting pictures and etc. etc. and then someone would jump in "hey do you like Honda or Ford?" This lack of thought has hurt this site. Regards.
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20 Apr 2014 05:35 PM
If you are located in Southeast like in Georgia Nudura has one of the best systems. You still need to get your quotes from other manufactures and use them to negotiate the price down for the Nudura forms,
dmaceldUser is Offline
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20 Apr 2014 07:04 PM
Another opinion, based solely at looking at their brochure. If it were me I would take a look at just buying styrofoam or high density foam panels from your building supplier and ripping them into strips. Sure, it would take time but the cost trade off might just be there, manpower to cut vs. Nudura pricing. The advantage of the inserts, as you noted, is the webs being close to the surface.
Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help!
BrucePolycreteUser is Offline
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20 Apr 2014 07:15 PM
Eric, check your private messages.
eric monkmanUser is Offline
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20 Apr 2014 07:41 PM
I'm wondering if Nudura has been premature in advertising the inserts. Maybe they are on a boat from Europe. 

Texas , thank-you for the tip on the use of insert for a chase , hadn't thought of that one,..... and the others you have posted over the years :-)

And Mac , it is my impression that the inserts dovetail fit to the insides of the block, eliminating air gaps, and being an Engineered system........in a pinch tho , i would do as you say.

Bruce , i see some positives with your big block, but the amount of carpentry skill required to manufacture inside and outside corners negates those positives instantly. Sorry Dude.

BrucePolycreteUser is Offline
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21 Apr 2014 09:05 AM
Sorry Eric, I thought you did commercial work. It's true that Polycrete is not a do-it-yourself ICF. Rudimentary skill with a circular saw is required. Real-life results show molded corners consistently create alignment problems on large commercial ICF jobs. But that's not the point of this thread which is why I originally posted my comments in a private message. Sorry for the digression, folks.
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21 Apr 2014 01:26 PM
There are 3 ways to easily add insulation with Nudura's forms:

1) Using the inserts simply slide into the interior dove-tail design on Nudura's blocks (PRO: keeps the fastening strips near the exterior of the outside EPS panel for attachment of siding; CON: extra labor installing the strips)

2) Using the Plus-Series forms, which comes laminated to one side of the form (PRO: no additional labor during construction; CON: fastening strips are buried further below the surface - works if doing a direct applied acrylic finish)

3) Add Nudura's Ceiling Technology Panels after walls are poured (PRO: 4' x 8' sheets can be easily attached with or without fastening strips - ie, can be used for direct applied acylic or siding finish; CON: may be more costly (check with local distributor), still have labor added after pour)
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21 Apr 2014 06:29 PM
Hello Eric: Our Valued Distributor Network Reps. normally monitor discussions at this site (a big thanks goes to all of you that have responded here) but some questions (such as this one) make their way directly to NUDURA's Technical Services Department. For the record --- YES, NUDURA "R-Value + Inserts" DO exist and in fact have been in existence as a manufactured reality since 2009 as Texas has suggested when they were first created for our European Market as "NUDURA U-Value + Inserts". They were originally requested as a Code Compliant solution to reduce wall thermal conductance to meet "Passivehaus" Standards in France of about 0.15 W/m2 = approx. R38. Also to answer another question - NO - the inserts do NOT come from Europe. In fact, they are currently fabricated here in North America at our North Eastern Plant and are shipped to Europe from Montreal, QC and now to the rest of North America. WE do now have long standing operational experience with the inserts in France where the clients are pleased with the resulting energy performance of their structures. The observations of others on this thread are correct regarding the only real downside of the product - that is the additional labour time to install (this is however true of every ICF Manufacturers' insulation insert products). However the best UPSIDE to the product beside the increased R-Value is that you retain ALL the standard fastening capability of the Standard forms At the exterior face of the form. Thanks to Lbear for the PDF post as well and ICFBdr for his summary of available insulation options. Though we do not yet have specific recorded thermal conductance performances on these structures beyond the general observations above, for clients wanting assured increased R-Value for their structure over and above a basic R 22, the R-Value Inserts remain a viable option to consider for attaining well above this figure to the levels shown on the PDF document.
eric monkmanUser is Offline
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21 Apr 2014 08:35 PM
Finally.WONDERBAR ! Thank-you.
That is exactly why I posted here...to get first hand experienced technical information.
My inquiry has been going on for 3 months now, and hopefully I can get some very SOON and price a job or 2.

To Bruce Polycrete , I do commercial work also, but your product just doesn't cut it from a labour perspective.
Your corners are weak and prone to deformation without valuable onsite time directed to rectifying the flaw.
I am a concrete former with 35 years experience and recognize immediately where problems will occur with any system form.....ICF or Conventional.
We pump our own concrete and truly understand form pressures, mix designs and placing rates.
Corners are the KEY to success with any system. Sorry Dude but your Big Block has a long way to go to match Nudura's strength and design superiority.
BrucePolycreteUser is Offline
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22 Apr 2014 09:16 AM
Eric's opinion is that of just one man who has never used the Polycrete product. His claim is not supported by the facts. I urge anyone interested to review the actual test results available on Polycrete's and Nudura's websites.
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