Monopour Footing with Vertical ICF
Last Post 02 Jul 2015 09:47 AM by smartwall. 14 Replies.
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ShopGuyUser is Offline
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29 Jun 2015 06:07 PM
I like the idea of a monopour footing but I'm also leaning towards TF for vertical forms. Anyone done it monopour and vertical ICF together? Did you go with form-a-drain, fast foot, or something else?
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29 Jun 2015 10:02 PM
I have done it....it is harder because normally you level the footer on the cement pour and for a monopour you need to level all the ground which is harder. Other reasons I can think of is you only get one chance to set it up and get it right. You also have alot more to do before the pour which leads to more potential problems like high winds, huge rain fall, and cave-ins due to the excess setup time.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlins
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30 Jun 2015 09:46 AM
Nonsense. You do the same procedure that you do for any pour, icf or regular forms. You level the footing forms first. This is the critical step regardless. Your combining 2 steps into one. How is that creating more work. Any form can be mono poured. Verticals are faster than standard blocks, so combine footing and wall pour is an even bigger winner.
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30 Jun 2015 10:18 AM
How do you secure the vertical panels in place over the footing cavity? What footing system do you use?

TF described a method where they have a 2x4 every 6-8 feet under the wall(perpendicular to the wall line) attached to the footing forms. This method though leave the lumber cast into the footing. I'm not sure I like that idea.
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30 Jun 2015 10:44 AM
I have my own system that I developed so unless your in NY or northern Pa I'm afraid it's out of reach. The lumber under the walls is verboten in most places except for B.C., I've talked to the people at North American Specialty Products about using my system with Form-a-Drain we'll see what happens
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30 Jun 2015 11:00 AM
Polycrete's monopour system includes insulated footing forms up to 36" wide and 12"; 18" or 24" deep. The first course of ICF wall sits on the footing forms' integrated metal cross tie system. If you're determined to use a vertical form, this system isn't for you, but the Polycrete forms are 16 sqft each and we keep developing innovative features that are not found in other ICF systems. PM me for details or check out the PolycreteUSA dot com website.
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30 Jun 2015 02:14 PM
Posted By ShopGuy on 30 Jun 2015 10:18 AM
How do you secure the vertical panels in place over the footing cavity? What footing system do you use?

TF described a method where they have a 2x4 every 6-8 feet under the wall(perpendicular to the wall line) attached to the footing forms. This method though leave the lumber cast into the footing. I'm not sure I like that idea.
I have no experience with the following.  I'm just putting some ideas in writing.

The old LiteForm ICF Installation manual showed the use of suspended ceiling frame metal "T" beams used to support different widths of ICF forms to create brick ledges.  If I recall correctly, they placed a "T" beam every 24" across the lower 8" core form to support the upper 4" core form to create a 4" brick ledge.  A similar arrangement could possibly be used for a full height ICF wall over footing forms, but you may want to tighten up the spacing of the "T" beams depending on the height of the wall.  You would have to cut slots in the footing form boards for the leg of the "T" beam to fit into and then screw the "T" beam to the wood forms.  These metal "T" beams would effectively replace the top bracing on the footing forms.  Then, with a vertical ICF like TF, you would screw the bottom metal "C" channels to the top of the "T" beams secured to the footing forms.  The metal "T" beams would remain in place after the footing form boards are removed, but you would have ~1-1/2" sticking out past the concrete footing on both sides upon removal of the form boards.  This would presumably be below grade so it shouldn't present an issue, but you would likely want to knock the ends down and blunt the sharp edges with a sledge hammer to keep from snagging them during construction.

I'm not sure how this would work with traditional ICF bracing since the vertical leg wouldn't really have anything to rest on other than the metal "T" beams which likely aren't strong enough to support the wall, bracing, and workers on the walk boards.  This might work fine with horizontal Zont bracing which moves the vertical braces 3.5" off the wall.  The vertical wood braces could possibly be secured to the inside form board, depending on the width of the footing.  The horizontal Zont bracing would probably be the best option for vertical ICF anyway.
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01 Jul 2015 07:41 AM
Arkie,

I like your train of thought. Gets the gears turning.

If you were to panelize the walls it would be pretty straight forward to use something like FastFoot by attaching a 2x4 along the bottom edge. But then you loose the ability easily slide panels up for inspection access. Maybe if the lower most panel is only 2' tall? Would only need to do it to the inside panels. Not sure it would work well with my wall heights though.

I'm going to let the gears keep grinding and see what I come up with.
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01 Jul 2015 09:12 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yurvl5Cv1g here is another method you can try?
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BrucePolycreteUser is Offline
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01 Jul 2015 09:32 AM
Link below is to a picture of Polycrete Split-Blok on 20" footing forms. A NY project underway now will have grade beam, walls and slab all poured at the same time. It features panelized walls and Helix micro rebar to minimize rebar required and speed the process. Speed is a necessity because the top of the slab is below the high tide line.
https://www.facebook.com/246132040589/photos/a.10152265429345590.1073741834.246132040589/10152265429515590/?type=3&theater
smartwallUser is Offline
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01 Jul 2015 09:38 AM
I hate to be a wet blanket, but the mono pour set up while simple can be a nightmare for a newbie with no experience in pouring icf's. I had been in the business for 10 years before I tried it. My first pours were with 4' frost walls, a height that let me work out the kinks with no problems. Raise the wall height and do a walkout like the picture that accompanies my post and everything changes. The first tall wall pour was interesting and it was only 7' high. I like the Fab Form system, but here the footing rebar has to be visible for inspection and the forms have to be glued together for the system to work.
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01 Jul 2015 10:24 AM
i have to go along with smartwall, it is a bit of a problem keeping everything plumb and straight, the inspection is not too bad , but you are throwing alot of things together at one time, so if something does go wrong it could be catastrophic, we have done alot of footer and stem wall pours, or we have done the footers then come back and set a couple blocks/panels and then prep the slab and pour the stem wall which is really acting like a form for the slab then pour the slab at the same time, the idea being trying to combine a pour somewhere. but you really don't, however if you have a slab to work off , it does make working on the walls a little easier. The Fab-Form i dont know we use to just set plastic on rails if it was a raised footer, the video below kind of gives you an idea, it doesnt show it in this one but the site conditions were so bad that we had to dig to the bottom of the footers, instead of digging 6" and railing 6", we actually had to run a 2x at 12" above the dig, so we used plastic to line the form, have been doing it that way for years, i guess thats kind of like Fab-Form, but you could also use Form-A-Drain and run tracks on the top of those to do something similiar, which is what we did in the second video attached below, hope that helps?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqdtmN3-JbU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYptMai09MI
GNP Inc
ICF Construction & Concrete Services
1-800-713-7663
BrucePolycreteUser is Offline
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01 Jul 2015 10:29 AM
Smartwall and Bill are correct. You really do need to know what you're doing (or have someone on the job who does) before you try something like this.
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02 Jul 2015 07:54 AM
To be honest I agree. I was about ready to post another thread asking how detrimental is a cold joint at the footer. Obviously that was been the standard method for many years. This particular project is also going to have stepped footings with frost walls in some areas and not in others.

I do appreciate all of the insight though, I broader understanding certainly can't hurt!
smartwallUser is Offline
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02 Jul 2015 09:47 AM
Two big advantages to the mono pour besides time savings: the footing and wall is 1 piece which allows back filling before the floor is poured and the lack of a cold joint between the wall and footer for strength. Your not depending on the dowels to tie the two together. You can use a hat channel to rest the walls on but that leaves the bottom of the wall above the top of the footing form. There a lot of ways to do it, but the pour as with any icf job is the critical part. You need the right slump as determined by the conditions at the time of the pour. A good pump operator that's not in a hurry is also important.
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