Forgive me if this topic has already been covered here, I am fairly new to this board, and haven’t managed to read all of the posts yet.  But it seems to me that the SIPs industry could do much more to improve the speed of constructing a house than generally is attempted.  And insodoing, could also significantly decrease costs due to the fact that the tasks are completed under ideal conditions, and in many cases by automated means.

 

For example, the exterior cladding of the dwelling.  Even if you skin the outside of the SIPs with OSB, adding siding should not be that much of a stretch, especially something like HardiPanels with vertical details.  Or, even something like HardiPlanks or other lap siding could be added if the fabricated panels are significantly the length of the outside walls of the structure. 

 

And then there is the prospect of applying paint, or stucco, or GrailCoat or GigaCrete or something else to the exteriors of the panels in the factory.  And, for many materials, this could be automated so that the panels travel past robotic paint sprayers (or something), where the finish could be applied to the siding.  All to reiterate that many manual processes could be done under ideal conditions in a factory setting, and in many cases by automated means.

 

Then obviously, drywall (or something) could be applied to the interiors of the panels, and finished.  As well as windows and doors being installed, and so on.  So that, when the panels arrive at the jobsite, they are simply assembled, and then some trim added as well as some touch up paint (or whatever).  All of this to eliminate as much of the site work as possible, and hopefully decreasing prices in the process.

 

It has been argued that Mobile Home manufacturing is the only real example of success in the factory-built or prefab housing industry.  All due to the fact that the work is completed in the factory, where the job comes to the worker’s domain, rather than the worker going to a much less ideal jobsite.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Dick Mills

transport damage and assembly damage to the finishes would be a problem. in addition thare may be little in the way of savings. You are going to pay for these steps whether you pay them to the factory or people onsite.

In addition , securing the panels would be impossible as well as having seams at the joints.

While I don't disagree, is seems to me that assembly damage to the finishes could be patched relatively easily.

As for transport damage, the same would be true with unfinished SIPs, although some additional padding between the finished panels would be necessary.

As far as cost savings go, I doubt that any site erected building will ever be able to achieve sub $40/square foot prices, but mobile home manufacturers do it consistently. Though I am the first to admit that there is a wide range of variation in mobile home pricing.

Dick Mills

Do you mean modular or mobile?

Hi Jeff,

That is a good point. But, what it sounds like you are saying is that there are no fasteners that you can use to secure the panels but then become hidden after the connection is made.

Metal skinned SIPs manufacturers have devised clever mechanisms for attaching and securing the finished panels (which also don't seem to be that bothered by assembly or transit damages). Why can't other SIPs manufacturers devise mechanisms for securing panels that allow for secure connections without the necessity of being covered over by some site-installed finishing material.

Dick Mills

Mobile, as in double-wide. ;)

When I first heard that some had decreed that mobile home manufacturing was the only real example of success for a factory built building process, I was offended! I am not a builder, let alone a SIPs builder, but I was offended that anyone would seriously consider mobile homes building to be in anyway superior to anything. But when you rationally consider the facts, in terms of price, timely delivery, and even recently in quality (with 2x6 walls and 2x10 roof rafters) they have got a point. Though I still find the finish in a double-wide to be tacky - if you want my opinion.

Dick

Hey Dick,

They do.  It is the nature of the  beast.  Wood , steel or fiber cement.  Each has its own attachment mechanism.  It's funny that we are discussing securring methods when a few weeks ago, I was engaged in a discussion about SIP costs.  I don't defend one method or another.  I choose to manufacture one type only and have become good it it.  All these questions about different exterior materials (skins) make me dizzy.  It has been my experience, that if you deviate from simple, you will make it more difficult.  No control over shippers is the main problem.  The second problem is the finished product.  I find it simpler to finish the product after the structure is erected. (22 years of building experience) We are already 2 weeks ahead of schedule.

Dick,

Your thought on mobile home building is correct.  The method in which they are built will change drastically.  We are working on that. 

 

Jeff, that is very good to hear. I have long believed that the Mobile Home industry would be greatly served by the use of SIPs. And while I still think they will f* it up, I look forward to seeing the next generation.

Dick Mills

Dick,

Google "BASIP" and read on. Great Stuff

Jeff,

That's cool, I will check it out. BASIP returns a lot of wierd stuff, but I finally located the Building America SIP information.

One more thing that on the durability of finish materials. A friend of mine got a sample of GrailCoat a while back. That stuff if outrageously expensive (I think it was a little over $2.50 / square foot for materials), but we beat the hell out of it. We basically tried everything that we could imagine to damage the surface of it but we couldn't do any appreciable damage to it. And I understand that Stucoflex has similar properties, but is considerably less expensive. But with a finish as durable as that, damage to the finish from assembly or transit shouldn't be that big of a problem.

Dick Mills

Stay away from Stuc-O Flex! ........................ had multiple problems with blistering and peeling on several projects ....they are unwilling to stand behind there product

Chris,

That is good to know. What was your substrate? Or did it happen on everything you put the Stuc-O-Flex on?

Dick Mills

Dick;

It was on flat Steel SIPs using their approved primer, we scraped one job completely off was very carefull to reinstall with no dew or in hot sun, but got same blistering. This happened eventually on 3 jobs. one job we ended up covering with vinyl siding because it was so horrible. My own house blisters primarily on the west exposure, I plan on wire lathing / conventional stucco this summer

I have heard that Pulte is moving in this direction. I am told they prefab foundation pieces and put electrical in the chases. And while the comments on transportation are correct, there are SIP companies that will provide you with Smart panels and Densglass.

Dick,

You bring up alot of points that, on the surface, should work perfectly.  About 10 years ago I was hired to help design and build some proto-type factory built houses for a company in Okeema OK.  I have had experience in sip building and traditional on site building, but had never tried to pick one up.  The houses we built worked perfectly.  We transported one to Colorado and it arrived with no damage or drywall cracks.  The sips made the exteior walls act like beams, and there was no saging or twisting when lifted.  I don't believe the company is in business anymore.  They had a good idea but didn't execute the business plan very well. All this leads to the fact that factory built houses should have all the advantages that you mentioned earlier.  The problem I have had with the manufactures in Colorado is that they don't deliver or execute as promised.  I am sure that there are manufacturers in Vermont, and New Hampshire and elsewhere that are more reliable, and professional, but haven't seen it around here.  I did help All American homes in Colorado do a sip house for a National Home builders Association show in Vegas (few years ago), and they seem very reputable, but I have never used there product for a customer.  I would love to see a company such as them use sips regularly.  All the points you have made regarding prefabricated panels and prefinished would work best in a mass production situation.  On all of the site built custom homes I have done,  the prefabricated panels have always needed to be modified.  It was not necessarily the fault of the panel manufactures, but homeowners change their minds and walls get modified.  It has worked best for me to order large (jumbo panels) stock panels and fabricate on site.
Sorry for the long post, but I get wound up on this subject.

Terry Hackbart