Attic, to insulate or not?
Last Post 04 Feb 2009 08:39 AM by pepperworks. 27 Replies.
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pepperworksUser is Offline
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18 Jan 2009 03:10 PM

We have a SIP (ranch) home, walls and roof.  All the ceilings are drop, giving attic space in the enitre house.  Given the span they had to use trusses with the panels.  There is no ventilation in the attic.  My air handler for the AC is in the attic as well as the air purification system.

My question is--- Are we supposed to insulate the floor?  Like you would with a traditional stick built?

After about 75% of the work was done, the company that made the panels went out of business.  Long story, still angry about that one..

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18 Jan 2009 03:32 PM

pepperworks;

no , your attic is conditioned space , insulating the ceiling is not neccessary or beneficial

Chris Kavala
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18 Jan 2009 03:41 PM

thanks for your info..  Then we must have air leakage somewhere within the panels because we have a ton of icicles hanging from the gutters.  I thought maybe it was because we didnt insulate the floors of the attic.

I assume that means we are losing heat through the roof? 

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18 Jan 2009 03:44 PM
Posted By cmkavala on 01/18/2009 3:32 PM

pepperworks;

no , your attic is conditioned space , insulating the ceiling is not neccessary or beneficial


There is no ventilation in the attic.

Hmmm, insulated, but not conditioned. Obviously, opinions vary on this. In this situation I probably would've recommended against a SIP roof.

On thing that you could do is to calculate a heat loss with and w/o the ceiling insulation. That will tell ya.
....jc
If you're not building with OSB SIPS(or ICF's), why are you building?
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18 Jan 2009 04:03 PM
Okie dokie, clear as mud! :)
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18 Jan 2009 04:05 PM
Posted By pepperworks on 01/18/2009 3:41 PM

thanks for your info..  Then we must have air leakage somewhere within the panels because we have a ton of icicles hanging from the gutters.  I thought maybe it was because we didnt insulate the floors of the attic.

I assume that means we are losing heat through the roof? 

Thats what it sounds like, a bad install job. Typical of the Alaska fiasco
If the insulation is in the roof then technically you do not have an attic it is considered conditioned space.



Chris Kavala
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pepperworksUser is Offline
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18 Jan 2009 04:15 PM
There were MANY problems with the install.. As I mentioned, the company that did the work went out of business without warning.. They were supposed to fill in the "gaps" with foam but I have been up in the attic and found places that werent filled in. I have been going along spraying where I think necessary. Hopefully once all the voids are filled in we wont have the problem with ice?.?

My husband insists it should be hot up there and it's not. It's about the same temp as the rest of the house.

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18 Jan 2009 05:06 PM
It should be about the same temp as the rest of the house
Chris Kavala
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18 Jan 2009 06:31 PM
In my ICF house, which I'm near finishing, the underside of all the roof, including garage, is spray foamed with Icynene. The garage roof has about 7" of foam. The garage ceiling is not insulated, and there is no air circulation, i.e., no vents and no fans, from the garage space to the garage attic. The garage is currently heated around 66F to 68F since it's the center for all the work on the rest of the house. Whenever I go into the garage attic it is definitely a bit cooler, maybe 2 - 5 degrees, than is the garage space. Outdoor temps are in the 30s and less. In the house attic, with ~10" of foam on the roof underside, the air is circulated through the house. It's essentially the same temp as the house space.

If you are doing a lot of infilling with foam do yourself a favor, if you haven't already. Don't use foam from a can such as from HD or Lowes. Go to supply house and get a foam gun and foam in a can that has to be used with a gun. It is much, much, less expensive.
Building house - what a way to spend retirement! It's done! We're living in it!
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19 Jan 2009 08:40 PM
You could invest in a froth pak (about $300.) and seal the joints. its good for getting hard to reach spaces
Chris Kavala
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pepperworksUser is Offline
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21 Jan 2009 09:44 AM
I have been using FOMO product.. is froth pak better??
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21 Jan 2009 10:08 AM
Posted By pepperworks on 01/21/2009 9:44 AM
I have been using FOMO product.. is froth pak better??
I have never used the FOMO, with the froth pak you can spray it on to build up layers over your joints  and  tight areas  from several feet away

http://building.dow.com/global/frothpak.htm

Chris Kavala
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21 Jan 2009 10:51 AM
I have been spraying the insulation between the panels.. I assumed that is the only place it should be sprayed. Forgive my ignorance.. I am not a builder or expert in this field, only a home owner that has been screwed over and now have to try and fix the mess...

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21 Jan 2009 11:06 AM
Posted By pepperworks on 01/21/2009 10:51 AM
I have been spraying the insulation between the panels.. I assumed that is the only place it should be sprayed. Forgive my ignorance.. I am not a builder or expert in this field, only a home owner that has been screwed over and now have to try and fix the mess...

pepperworks;

no its OK to do that,
 but you can never be sure if the voids got filled because you can't see in the joint connection.
If you sprayed a layer of foam over the joint you could actually see if its sealed, you could also spray over the gable to roof and eave to roof connection - if still accessible

Chris Kavala
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pepperworksUser is Offline
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21 Jan 2009 11:35 AM
when you say joint, what do you mean by that? If I look up at the ceiling (in the attic) I see the panels (they do not have osb, just the exposed polywhatever.. with steel studs and steel plates where two panels might meet. and there are trusses and beams all around. I could email you a pic if that would help...
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25 Jan 2009 03:07 AM
You could have an inspection done with a 'thermal imaging camera' to see where you might be lacking insulation.
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PANELfusion, LLC, Tampa, FL
simon@panelfusion(dot com)
"Metal SIP Advocate"
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25 Jan 2009 02:43 PM
Posted By pepperworks on 01/21/2009 11:35 AM
when you say joint, what do you mean by that? If I look up at the ceiling (in the attic) I see the panels (they do not have osb, just the exposed polywhatever.. with steel studs and steel plates where two panels might meet. and there are trusses and beams all around. I could email you a pic if that would help...
e mail pic to address below

Chris Kavala
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26 Jan 2009 01:02 AM
If your SIPs are constructed with metal studs, and the depth of those metal studs are the depth of the foam core of your SIPs, then the metal studs are acting as 'thermal bridges' and conducting the heat of the interior of your home through the highly heat conductive metal of the studs to the exterior. A possible solution would be to spray the underside of your SIPs with Icynene foam at all joints and along all metal studs.
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simon@panelfusion(dot com)
"Metal SIP Advocate"
pepperworksUser is Offline
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26 Jan 2009 01:17 PM
here is a link for anyone interested in checking out pic's of our panel building process.

https://cid-17036ed64fc3da59.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Sip%20home

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26 Jan 2009 04:37 PM
Posted By pepperworks on 01/26/2009 1:17 PM
here is a link for anyone interested in checking out pic's of our panel building process.

https://cid-17036ed64fc3da59.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Sip%20home


Viewed your pics, not a true SIP project, but I see the foam @ the joints , woulda, coulda, shoulda been done during assembly.
You need to keep doing  what your doing

Go back to your MFG. and get their advice
Chris Kavala
info@southernsips.com
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