I'm sure this has been asked a thousand times but I can't find anything. I'm ready to do my electrical installation and I can't find face mount boxes that will sit 1/2" proud for the drywall. What does everyone use, a link, picture or brand name would be a nice start. I asked at a few stores and they keep showing me exterior plugs. Thanks, Sean

Carlon makes several plastic boxes designed to set 1/2" proud for your drywall.
Their A-122 is a single gang and the A-238 is a double gang box.
These should be available from Lowes, and probably Home Depot, if you can't find them at your local electrical supplier.
You can see these boxes on the Lowes website.

Thanks Wes, I couldn't find any at Home Depot but I'm sure someone in town will have them. My SIP supplier is coming by today so I'll ask him where he got his. Thanks again, Sean

SGO,
I used the "blue ones" from Lowe's. They have a flange that sticks out about 1" on one side. Screw this into the SIP. This gives you the bump out for the drywall. Since these are plastic, I also sunk a screw ont he other side into the osb kind of sideways. This held the box great with no movement when pluggin and unplugging. Depending on the size you cut out, it may deform the box slightly but the cover, well, covered it.

We use regular electrical boxes and foam them into place (with the nails protrouding). To easily achieve this, we have a template that we quickly and temporarily tack to the wall and then router out the box hole. Then we put the box in (after we pull the wires into it of course) and hold it and foam it into place. It is placed flush with the template which happens to be the same thickness as the drywall to be applied. Presto, job done.

This may be a little late but I try to traine electricians that are new at Sips to use a 4" round hole saw and round electrical boxes for single plug, switch and fixtures. it goes very fast! Keep all of the 4" plugs in a 5 gal bucket. If you get hung up anywhere just pop a hole with the hole saw to help cut down on some of the long runs to pull romex through. Then any extra holes you have that don't have a plug or a switch just foam the plugs back into them...

When using the round box for outlets and switches, what kind of cover plate do you use?  The normal rectangular cover plates would not cover the round box; do they?

Sounds like he is using one of these (sans the nailing wings): http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/raco_datasheet.asp?PN=7052&FAM=RacoBoxes&P=12843,11533,2081 Then using a 4" square to 1 or 2 gang adapter plate. Unless they are also available 1n a 2-gang version. My only concern would be the increased loss of insulation value at the box locations. Probably not enough to make a detectible difference in an average home.

Kicking an old thread an hoping someone is still listening....

NEC 2008 requires that the wires be attached to the box (3.14.17C).  It doesn't seem to me that any of the suggested solutions here provide that.

There is an exception for single gang boxes, but that requires that the wires be fastened within 8" of the box, which, since the wires are just lying in the chase doesn't seem to be true with SIPs.

The plastic box with the wing that attaches to the face of the SIP (the rectangular boxes that have been mentioned here) seem ideal, but, to meet code would require that the cable be secured to the box, and I don't think that any of the suggested boxes provide for that.

The alternative is a metal box with an internal clamp, but I don't know of any of those that have a surface mount.

Any ideas?

Can anyone explain to me what the "SIP Learning Center" is talking about in the wiring section:

Generic. Remember that you won't be attaching electrical boxes to 2x lumber with nails; most often your electrical boxes will attach to the interior panel facing with a plaster ring.

I don't see what they have in mind with the "plaster ring".

Thanks.

Posted By stonecaveman on 13 May 2010 05:55 PM
Kicking an old thread an hoping someone is still listening....

NEC 2008 requires that the wires be attached to the box (3.14.17C).  It doesn't seem to me that any of the suggested solutions here provide that.

There is an exception for single gang boxes, but that requires that the wires be fastened within 8" of the box, which, since the wires are just lying in the chase doesn't seem to be true with SIPs.

another good reason to fur-out inside

Stonecaveman,
I am not read the 2008 version of NEC, but the blue plastic boxes mentioned in earlier posts have fraction fit tabs that hold the wire in place once it is inserted into the box. This situation met all previous versions of NEC regs as to holding the wire in place. I find it hard to believe that this reg has changed, expecially since all my local supply houses are still selling these boxes as standard for new construction. ** the reason for the 'attachment' rule is to keep the wire from being being pulled out of the box and putting undo stress on the attachements in the box. This is accomplished by the spring tabs found in the plastic boxes.**

Posted By stonecaveman on 13 May 2010 05:55 PM

I don't see what they have in mind with the "plaster ring".

Thanks.

Probably something like this:
http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/...,1682,8669
It attaches to the box and extends out to each side.

Posted By wes on 14 May 2010 07:09 AM
Stonecaveman,
I am not read the 2008 version of NEC, but the blue plastic boxes mentioned in earlier posts have fraction fit tabs that hold the wire in place once it is inserted into the box. This situation met all previous versions of NEC regs as to holding the wire in place. I find it hard to believe that this reg has changed, expecially since all my local supply houses are still selling these boxes as standard for new construction. ** the reason for the 'attachment' rule is to keep the wire from being being pulled out of the box and putting undo stress on the attachements in the box. This is accomplished by the spring tabs found in the plastic boxes.**

If I look at the double-gang Carlon it indeed has the friction tabs.  If I look at the single-gang, it just has knockout.  This makes sense with respect to the NEC since it requires that all wires be "secured to the boxes" EXCEPT single gang boxes small than 2 1/4 x 4 where the wire is fastened withing 8" of the box.  With stick-framing, it's easy to put a staple in and fasten the wire - the the SIP chase not so.

I haven't found a non-metallic, single-gang box that has wings and friction tabs or other clamping means (any two of the three are easy, all three together I haven't yet found).  Carlon don't have anything non-metallic in their catalog.  Carlon and Raco have metallic boxes.  I'd rather have non-metallic to avoid having to separately ground each box.  The metallic boxes are also significantly more expensive ~$5.50 vs $1.50 - about $100 difference on the installation I have, not particularly significant if they're the only thing that will work, but since they're also more difficult to work with it's an annoyance.

Posted By Bigrig on 14 May 2010 10:32 AM

Posted By stonecaveman on 13 May 2010 05:55 PM

I don't see what they have in mind with the "plaster ring".

Thanks.

Probably something like this:
http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/...,1682,8669
It attaches to the box and extends out to each side.

Is the idea that you attach these to the SIPs before the drywall and just stick the outlet 1/2" from the box with a washer, spacer or similar (which I don't like even if it's code compliant)?

Or is the idea that you don't add the electrical boxes until after the drywall is complete.  I'm starting to think that this might not be a bad solution to the whole problem.  This would allow the use of these plaster rings, or "old-work" boxes with plaster ears.  The old work boxes seem to have cable grips.

Does anyone see a problem with using old work boxes on the SIP walls?

I believe the box fastens to the back of the mud ring, and the front of the mud ring extends out far enough to be flush with the face of the drywall. They are available in flat, 1/2", 3/4", etc. front "projection" for different finish thicknesses. Basically they would act as box extenders with wings to fasten to the OSB behind the drywall. Never really thought about it until now. I was personally planning on using PUR SIPs, where the box comes pre-installed. I'm sure someone can probably comment on how it is handled on the metal SIP systems where drywall is not wanted as a finsh face?

Old work boxes require "space" around the opening for the wings or arms to move out. I suppose the spaces could be foamed after the box and wire is installed.

Posted By Bigrig on 14 May 2010 12:57 PM
I believe the box fastens to the back of the mud ring, and the front of the mud ring extends out far enough to be flush with the face of the drywall. They are available in flat, 1/2", 3/4", etc. front "projection" for different finish thicknesses. Basically they would act as box extenders with wings to fasten to the OSB behind the drywall.

OK, that makes sense.  As I understand it, the mud rings are really covers for 4" boxes that would be attached to the OSB rather than a box.   They seem to have provision for attaching the outlet, but not for attaching the box.  That seems to be assumed to be a 4" box that is already attached.

Posted By Bigrig on 14 May 2010 12:57 PM Old work boxes require "space" around the opening for the wings or arms to move out. I suppose the spaces could be foamed after the box and wire is installed.

There seem to be a bunch of styles.  There are boxes that just have ears top and bottom, no clips out the side.  You put the screws through the holes in the ears, the drywall and, presumably, whatever is behind them.  Carlon has them, but they're tiny (8 cu.in.) - two small of 4x12/2 and an outlet.  It's an "old work" box and so has a way to secure the wire (friction clips).

These could be mounted directly to the OSB and, you could put a mud ring on top of that.  Carlon also sell box extenders - kinda like a mini mud ring. My reading of NEC is that that additional volume can be used in the fill calc.  (The sentence NEC 2008 314.16(A) is confusing since it throws in a requirement that the volume be know and doesn't seem to allow the option of actually measuring it if it's not marked on the mud ring).   I'm not stuck with Carlon except that they are readily available at the big home improvement centers.  A box that meets the fill by itself would make me happier.

I think I like the approach of the box, with just ears, attached to the OSB, then the mud ring as a spacer.  Of course, whether the inspector agrees is another question entirely.

EDIT: I see that Carlon has boxes with wings and ears which might work even better.  Just trap the wings behind the OSB and screw into the OSB.  Since these are larger the fill issue goes away.  Then I'm torn between an extender and a mud ring.  Does the added thickness of the mud ring on top of the OSB cause any problems with the drywall?  If not, it would seem to be the better choice since it would better cover cutting errors in the drywall (easier to patch when there's something behind it).  Otherwise the extenders would seem more convenient.

Mud ring

Posted By cmkavala on 14 May 2010 08:57 PM
Mud ring

The double-gang mud ring (like this one) will fit around the single-gang boxes.  However, so far, I can't find a double-gang mud ring and double-gang box that fit together - the screw holes don't line up.  I've only searched the local hardware store, need to hit somewhere with a bigger selection and see if I can find a match.  Or find a triple-gang mud ring.  I think that if you use a metal mud ring it would have to be grounded.

It's like a jigsaw puzzle, but never fear, the last time someone gave me one of those it said "3 years and up" on the box and I had it complete in under 6 months!

Posted By stonecaveman on 14 May 2010 10:58 PM

Posted By cmkavala on 14 May 2010 08:57 PM
Mud ring

The double-gang mud ring (like this one) will fit around the single-gang boxes.  However, so far, I can't find a double-gang mud ring and double-gang box that fit together - the screw holes don't line up.  I've only searched the local hardware store, need to hit somewhere with a bigger selection and see if I can find a match.  Or find a triple-gang mud ring.  I think that if you use a metal mud ring it would have to be grounded.

It's like a jigsaw puzzle, but never fear, the last time someone gave me one of those it said "3 years and up" on the box and I had it complete in under 6 months!

when you attach the switch/outlet it is in contact metal to metal and is grounded, you wil need to go to an electrical supply house to find the multiple gang box mud rings. If holes are not aligning then you have the wrong combo

Posted By stonecaveman on 13 May 2010 05:55 PM
Kicking an old thread an hoping someone is still listening....

NEC 2008 requires that the wires be attached to the box (3.14.17C).  It doesn't seem to me that any of the suggested solutions here provide that.

There is an exception for single gang boxes, but that requires that the wires be fastened within 8" of the box, which, since the wires are just lying in the chase doesn't seem to be true with SIPs.

I don't think the code can be easily met using the chases, electrical inspectors don't like what they can't see.