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Fiber Cement Board-is it better than OSB
Last Post 14 May 2014 03:07 PM by Innova. 54 Replies. |
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The Sipper
Basic Member
Posts:264
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| 27 Feb 2010 10:37 PM |
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Posted By The Sipper on 27 Feb 2010 04:19 PM
So, Liviu, are you saying that those 2 products can be used as finishes directly on the exterior surfaces of MGO Board SIPs? If so I'm sure that all of the people who are planning to build their homes with that wall system, and who're reading this thread, will appreciate that information. BTW, I thought that your current emphasis was on fiber cement skin SIPs, at least that was your topic when you instigated this thread.
Wayne Z, you're correct that OSB SIPs do have limitations in connection with their use in type III and type IV construction. But, there are certain applications where they can be used in concert with non combustible structural systems and job specific code approved fire rated assemblies.
Having said that I think maybe you've lost sight of the fact that the great majority of the "discussions" on the GBT Forums evolve around type V (5) residential construction projects, and that's where many of the benefits and advantages of OSB SIPs come in (As I outlined in my previous post) This is not to say that we're not interested in commercial, industrial, and institutional, projects because many such projects have utilized OSB SIPS as an integral component of their building envelopes. (one can see photos of a number of these projects at www.achfoam.com and www.r-control.com) Perhaps that is an area where you can gain market share, once you overcome your current "limitations". However, you may correct me if I'm wrong, I will hazard a guess that the focus of your industry is not on SIPs, but on the commercial cladding industry, as a whole.
Now, If you think that 8' x 24' MGO, Fiber Cement, CBPB (or whatever?) panels are a "VIABLE" alternative for the US SIP industry to use in place of OSB, you should go for it! Spend those $$ to test, tool up, and market (Maybe Liviu will fund this effort......... I better be careful here, maybe he can, and will)
BTW, FYI, There is a "Green Building- Commercial" forum on this website.
So, is there anybody out there who really wants to talk about building a home with SIPs? (Whatever kind of skin or foam that you're interested in)
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| The Sipper |
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toddm
Veteran Member
Posts:1152
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| 28 Feb 2010 09:16 AM |
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Right on, Sipper. The U.S. SIP industry is doing just fine without any of that innovation stuff. It says right here that the SIPs industry has doubled its market share since 2005. http://www.sips.org/content/news/index.cfm?PageId=281
Well, OK, SIPs accounted for only 1 percent of residential construction by square footage in 2008, but it's growing fast, right?
Actually, reading a bit further, we see that SIPs "gained" ground in '08, the latest numbers available, because it lost sales at a slower pace than the industry -- down 11 percent vs. 40 percent for construction as a whole.
But losing sales slower is better, right?
Well, we see here that Louisiana Pacific has $860 million in current assets, stuff that can converted readily into cash, or roughly twice the SIP industry's sales in 2008.
But we still have The Sipper. Let the Federation of American Scientists go to China to experiment.
Oh. They already are?
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The Sipper
Basic Member
Posts:264
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| 28 Feb 2010 02:29 PM |
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First of all, I don't know why my last post has been repeated in its entirety, I certainly didn't intend to do that.
toddm, there you go again. I doubt that many of the visitors to these forums, who are seriously interested in obtaining information in connection with a possible building project, will really care much about what you had to say in your last post. I could dissect your comments, and make a good case that they are either inaccurate, or irrelevant to the topic at hand. But why do that?, if the majority of those who are actually planning to build something weren't paying attention anyway.
Now you can just respond with another one of your "toilet mouthed" personal insults, like you usually do, and than we can move along with the real business at hand. |
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| The Sipper |
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Liviu
New Member
Posts:36
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| 28 Feb 2010 05:01 PM |
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Posted By toddm on 28 Feb 2010 09:16 AM
Right on, Sipper. The U.S. SIP industry is doing just fine without any of that innovation stuff. It says right here that the SIPs industry has doubled its market share since 2005. http://www.sips.org/content/news/index.cfm?PageId=281
Well, OK, SIPs accounted for only 1 percent of residential construction by square footage in 2008, but it's growing fast, right?
Actually, reading a bit further, we see that SIPs "gained" ground in '08, the latest numbers available, because it lost sales at a slower pace than the industry -- down 11 percent vs. 40 percent for construction as a whole.
But losing sales slower is better, right?
Well, we see here that Louisiana Pacific has $860 million in current assets, stuff that can converted readily into cash, or roughly twice the SIP industry's sales in 2008.
But we still have The Sipper. Let the Federation of American Scientists go to China to experiment.
Oh. They already are?
toddm, nobody cares about the sales of OSB, this is a " GreenBuidingTalk" and we are talking about SIP's panels and other green or better alternatives of the SIP's for people that are open minded . For you to say that we can do just fine without " that innovative stuff" it really shows that you are not open to any discussions. I am not sure why do even bother posting here. |
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Liviu
New Member
Posts:36
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| 28 Feb 2010 05:19 PM |
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Posted By The Sipper on 27 Feb 2010 10:37 PM
Posted By The Sipper on 27 Feb 2010 04:19 PM
So, Liviu, are you saying that those 2 products can be used as finishes directly on the exterior surfaces of MGO Board SIPs? If so I'm sure that all of the people who are planning to build their homes with that wall system, and who're reading this thread, will appreciate that information. BTW, I thought that your current emphasis was on fiber cement skin SIPs, at least that was your topic when you instigated this thread.
Wayne Z, you're correct that OSB SIPs do have limitations in connection with their use in type III and type IV construction. But, there are certain applications where they can be used in concert with non combustible structural systems and job specific code approved fire rated assemblies.
Having said that I think maybe you've lost sight of the fact that the great majority of the "discussions" on the GBT Forums evolve around type V (5) residential construction projects, and that's where many of the benefits and advantages of OSB SIPs come in (As I outlined in my previous post) This is not to say that we're not interested in commercial, industrial, and institutional, projects because many such projects have utilized OSB SIPS as an integral component of their building envelopes. (one can see photos of a number of these projects at www.achfoam.com and www.r-control.com) Perhaps that is an area where you can gain market share, once you overcome your current "limitations". However, you may correct me if I'm wrong, I will hazard a guess that the focus of your industry is not on SIPs, but on the commercial cladding industry, as a whole.
Now, If you think that 8' x 24' MGO, Fiber Cement, CBPB (or whatever?) panels are a "VIABLE" alternative for the US SIP industry to use in place of OSB, you should go for it! Spend those $$ to test, tool up, and market (Maybe Liviu will fund this effort......... I better be careful here, maybe he can, and will)
BTW, FYI, There is a "Green Building- Commercial" forum on this website.
So, is there anybody out there who really wants to talk about building a home with SIPs? (Whatever kind of skin or foam that you're interested in)
Sipper, I am interested in all alternatives of SIP's panels including OSB. For the location of the project I am interested in the OSB is just not the best solution for me. I personally like the OSB the best if I would be manufacturing panels here. It is a god market for it, people know it, it is easy to get, easy to work, etc. Again the reason I like MGO or cement board it is because of the different market and those would be the only two products accepted . Yes those two products can be applied on both MGO and cement fiber products using just primer. It is also a green product that it saves energy and it will last much longer than any exterior paint commonly used now on all houses. They are other products out there that can be applied directly on the cement or MGO board I am sure. |
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The Sipper
Basic Member
Posts:264
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| 28 Feb 2010 07:14 PM |
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Liviu, if someone reads my posts very carefully, they'll see that I never "bash" the products that compete with those that I'm promoting. I will, however, point out the advantages, and benefits of "my" products, as I see them, over competitive ones, be they existing, or new, "innovative" technology.
I'm sure that there are many ways to finish the exteriors of Fiber Cement and MGO board SIPs, and, as I said before, I'm sure that those folks who are building the walls of their homes with those products may find that information helpful. Also, it sounds like you're planning to build something, please keep us posted on your project as it progresses.
BTW, evidently you didn't understand that toddm's post was intended to be a sarcastic response to my comments on this thread. I have nothing else to add to my last post regarding the way that he chooses to express his opinions on many of these forums. Actually, I appreciate the "extra press".
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| The Sipper |
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toddm
Veteran Member
Posts:1152
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| 01 Mar 2010 02:13 PM |
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The Sipper, from above:
"Liviu, if someone reads my posts very carefully, they'll see that I never "bash" the products that compete with those that I'm promoting. I will, however, point out the advantages, and benefits of "my" products, as I see them, over competitive ones, be they existing, or new, "innovative" technology.
The Sipper, on Jan. 19:
"Now regarding the % of portland cement that is utilized in the manufacturing process of your product. Your math was perfect "100%- 27%= 73% (materials in Hebel that are NOT portland cement)" You ignored my point that your product employs 2 to nearly 3 times as much portland cement as is used in the production of the concrete that is used in connection with ICFs. Maybe you're not aware that portland cement is not considered to be "green" by most who are involved in this segment of the building industry. However, this concern is offset when used in connection with ICFs due to the rather modest amount that is used, and the resulting energy efficiency of the system. And, Hebel does not match up with ICFs for energy efficiency, not to mention strength. (It is my contention that you can't "glue" small individual blocks together, and match the strength of a monolithic, rebar enforced. concrete wall)"
Guess you were The ICFer that day. |
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The Sipper
Basic Member
Posts:264
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| 01 Mar 2010 04:47 PM |
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Thanks again, toddm! I appreciate your support of my ideas by again repeating my posts. Actually, no one expressed any issues in connection with the factual information, or the opinions, that I presented in my post on Jan 19. However, the context might have been clearer if you had chosen to repeat the entire post rather than just a selected excerpt. And, yes, I do promote ICF's, as well as SIPs, as viable choices for those who are planning to build a "Green" home.
Keep up the good work! |
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| The Sipper |
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Liviu
New Member
Posts:36
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| 01 Mar 2010 07:03 PM |
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Posted By The Sipper on 28 Feb 2010 07:14 PM
Liviu, if someone reads my posts very carefully, they'll see that I never "bash" the products that compete with those that I'm promoting. I will, however, point out the advantages, and benefits of "my" products, as I see them, over competitive ones, be they existing, or new, "innovative" technology.
I'm sure that there are many ways to finish the exteriors of Fiber Cement and MGO board SIPs, and, as I said before, I'm sure that those folks who are building the walls of their homes with those products may find that information helpful. Also, it sounds like you're planning to build something, please keep us posted on your project as it progresses.
BTW, evidently you didn't understand that toddm's post was intended to be a sarcastic response to my comments on this thread. I have nothing else to add to my last post regarding the way that he chooses to express his opinions on many of these forums. Actually, I appreciate the "extra press".
Sipper, All I am trying to find out is if is anything else that we should consider when using the cement or MGO skins in our SIP's home project. We have the solution for the corrosion and like I said before metal or OSB are out of the question. Maybe is still another alternative out there? |
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The Sipper
Basic Member
Posts:264
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| 01 Mar 2010 07:26 PM |
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Liviu, have you checked into bamboo?..................just kidding, where are you building? It seems to me like you should have all of your bases pretty well covered in connection with fiber cement and MGO board SIPs. If not, Wayne Z should be able to help you.
Good luck with your project! |
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| The Sipper |
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Cartman
New Member
Posts:1
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| 27 Jul 2011 07:37 PM |
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We will be building a large home in a very high fire danger zone in Southern California where homes are routinely burned down every few years. I came across this thread because I'm interested in building a home as fire resistant as possible. I thought ICF, or a steel structure with concrete panels instead of OSB might be a good start.
For what it's worth, I would never hire "The Sipper" as he/she strikes me as the sort of person I wouldn't do business with. Moreover, it seemed clear to me that the people promoting the alternatives to OSB were interested, to no small degree, by the fire resistant properties of the material. The Sipper didn't seem to understand that, or was so determined to put that preference down or insist that it had no place in residential construction that I found myself wishing he was not part of the thread at all. He seemed more interested in touting himself and his own product preferences than being helpful. Sort of the neighbourhood know-it-all PITA that every forum seems to have one or two of. It's quite possible that he has good information to offer, but I would rather build a house out of straw or Legos rather than put myself through the aggravation.
P.S., sorry about the necro-post from 2010 but I just couldn't leave it without making a comment. |
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jonr
Senior Member
Posts:5341
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| 27 Jul 2011 09:46 PM |
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IMO, most fireproof would be stucco+concrete walls with insulation on the interior and a standing seam metal roof over steel trusses. Hardi-trim as needed and a good sprinkler system.
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SimonD
Basic Member
Posts:167
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| 31 Jul 2011 12:07 AM |
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Beyond the basic performance of a material, there are cultural perceptions and biases toward materials. The US is one of the few countries comfortable with building with all wood. Many other countries have a masonry building tradition that is very deep rooted. The creation of a masonry-skinned SIP using fiber-cement sheathing satisfies a perceptual need of people in these countries. When they tap on a wall, they expect to feel and hear the solidness of masonry. OSB skinned panels would be a very hard sell in certain countries. |
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| Building Designer PANELfusion, LLC Tampa, FL [email protected] "Metal SIP Advocate" |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 31 Jul 2011 07:11 AM |
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Simon;
you are correct, I have found in some caribbean countries, wood is considered as an inferior building material. In some cases may only be permitted as a temporary structure |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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Innova
Basic Member
Posts:121
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| 14 May 2014 03:07 PM |
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Innova Eco Building System manufactures fiber cement CSIPs with James Hardie Board skins. The Innova CSIP are Florida product approved. We use Grabber cement board screws to connect our CSIP and MGO SIP panels. The Grabber screws are coated for exterior use, have a high and low thread and nibs on the back of the head to help seat the head flush with the board. Collated screws are available in 1 1/4" and 1 5/8" #8. If you purchase the correct gun, you can set the depth of the seat so that you do not overdrive the head into the board. for more info contact Innova XXX-XXX-XXXX (Phone #'s and email addresses are not allowed in forum posts) |
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