Liviu
New Member
Posts:36
 |
| 22 Feb 2010 04:19 PM |
|
Is anyone using Fiber Cement Board in place of OSB. I heard it was stronger, more water resistant and cheaper considering less finish work needed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
toddm
Veteran Member
Posts:1152
|
| 23 Feb 2010 03:44 PM |
|
Not many, according to this report by the Federation of American Scientists: http://www.fas.org/programs/energy/btech/about/Expanding%20the%20Scope%20and%20Market%20of%20SIP%20Technologies.pdf
FAS itself is doing cementitious SIP demonstrations, for the obvious reason. If inexpensive CSIP panels can be shipped to the jobsite with attractive interior and exterior finishes in place --note the "if" -- the resulting economies could finally drive a stake into the heart of stick-built. But as the report suggests delicately, the instinct of existing players in an industry is to drown babies, even those that could lift an emerging industry into the mainstream.
I believe you can find many examples of attempted infanticide on this site. |
|
|
|
|
Liviu
New Member
Posts:36
|
| 23 Feb 2010 09:47 PM |
|
I want to hear coments on this topic and on this project that is found here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fascientists/sets/72157617000185213/
|
|
|
|
|
cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
|
| 23 Feb 2010 10:07 PM |
|
Posted By Liviu on 23 Feb 2010 09:47 PM
I want to hear coments on this topic and on this project that is found here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fascientists/sets/72157617000185213/
Are these non- structural SIPs? |
|
| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
|
|
cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
|
| 23 Feb 2010 10:12 PM |
|
Liviu;
looks complicated, needs trusses for support?, wall panels are stacked due short lengths and everything is fire resistant except for splines, top/bottom plates and window/door bucks is that correct? |
|
| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
|
|
Liviu
New Member
Posts:36
|
| 24 Feb 2010 01:49 PM |
|
Chris, The panels come in 10 ft long and 5/16"- 1-5/8" thick. They choose in this project to use trusses but they could use a beam to support the roof. They can also use galvanized steel splines. Those are small details and I don't think they are focusing on this as much as a whole new way of building a better structure that it will last longer. And keep in mind that the finish work is just joints, texture and paint inside and stucco . Yes those panels may be structural if they used a structural cement fiber board like versaroc ( www.usarch.com ) and yes the board it is more money here $41 vs $14 in China because it is no competition and the testing fee. Here is another link that is interesting;
|
|
|
|
|
Wayne Zhang
New Member
Posts:20
|
| 24 Feb 2010 02:15 PM |
|
Thank you liviu.
That is an interesting vedio.
Armoroc is idential to versaroc and the product name is called cement bonded particle board(CBPB). There are 3 major suppliers of CBPB in USA. As I mentioned before, CBPB is structural. You may want to log onto UL.com to find that Armoroc is listed as structural mineral fibre cemment boards.
For the price you mentioned, what is the thickness? |
|
|
|
|
Liviu
New Member
Posts:36
|
| 24 Feb 2010 05:05 PM |
|
Posted By Wayne Zhang on 24 Feb 2010 02:15 PM
Thank you liviu.
That is an interesting vedio.
Armoroc is idential to versaroc and the product name is called cement bonded particle board(CBPB). There are 3 major suppliers of CBPB in USA. As I mentioned before, CBPB is structural. You may want to log onto UL.com to find that Armoroc is listed as structural mineral fibre cemment boards.
For the price you mentioned, what is the thickness? The price is for 1/2 inch US and China. |
|
|
|
|
Liviu
New Member
Posts:36
|
| 24 Feb 2010 06:05 PM |
|
here is some more info on the fiber cement board
http://www.fas.org/programs/energy/btech/advanced%20technologies/Adaptations%20of%20Cementitious%20Structural%20Insulated%20Panels%20to%20Multistory%20Construction.pdf |
|
|
|
|
Wayne Zhang
New Member
Posts:20
|
| 24 Feb 2010 06:09 PM |
|
For 1/2" x 4'x10', you shall be able to get it to door price about $35-$38/sheet depends on your location in US. The price depends largely on the freight cost and volume as well.
I don't think you could get a standard quality CBPB boards (ISO 8335 or EN 634) for $14 in China. For $14, it is more likely the price for Mgo board.
|
|
|
|
|
cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
|
| 24 Feb 2010 06:12 PM |
|
Liviu;
10 ft. limitation........ means "beams" not one beam to support roof unless your building was 16ft. or less wide?
10 ft. limitation.... means a weak joint on gable ends at the splice.
the product is very similar to other fibercement panels I have installed, they are heavy, the corners snap off easily, are not repairable in the field and will need full replacements, steel splines are hard to insert into such a fine slot.
.............and no one has fully addressed the corrosion issue yet? it is still unresolved and very important since many sidings and roofing is attached with steel screws, it would be cost prohibative to use SS fasteners,
Do you have approvals from siding and roofing mfg.s or is their warranty voided over your product? |
|
| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
|
|
Liviu
New Member
Posts:36
|
| 24 Feb 2010 06:43 PM |
|
Posted By cmkavala on 24 Feb 2010 06:12 PM
Liviu;
10 ft. limitation........ means "beams" not one beam to support roof unless your building was 16ft. or less wide?
10 ft. limitation.... means a weak joint on gable ends at the splice.
the product is very similar to other fibercement panels I have installed, they are heavy, the corners snap off easily, are not repairable in the field and will need full replacements, steel splines are hard to insert into such a fine slot.
.............and no one has fully addressed the corrosion issue yet? it is still unresolved and very important since many sidings and roofing is attached with steel screws, it would be cost prohibative to use SS fasteners,
Do you have approvals from siding and roofing mfg.s or is their warranty voided over your product? Chris, They are all kinds of corrosive resistant screws out there that can be used, same like with the MGO. Even if they are more money taking in the consideration the reduce cost for finish and labor cost for finish it is still better system. As far as the roof beams issue there are other low cost solutions, or we can use your steel panels. |
|
|
|
|
Wayne Zhang
New Member
Posts:20
|
| 24 Feb 2010 06:47 PM |
|
Chris, there is no corrosion issue from cement bonded particle board or fiber cement board.
Liviu, I am located in Toronto, Ontario. www.cbpb.org
|
|
|
|
|
Liviu
New Member
Posts:36
|
| 24 Feb 2010 07:06 PM |
|
Posted By Wayne Zhang on 24 Feb 2010 06:47 PM
Chris, there is no corrosion issue from cement bonded particle board or fiber cement board.
Liviu, I am located in Toronto, Ontario. www.cbpb.org
Wayne, I think you are wrong,Chris will find some corrosion problems with the cement board , wait and see. |
|
|
|
|
Wayne Zhang
New Member
Posts:20
|
| 24 Feb 2010 07:20 PM |
|
Thank you guys. I learned a lot here and there is a lot more to learn.
For cement board, there is one common, like concret, has a high pH 10-12.
Is there any SIP manufactures interested to explore CSIP further? |
|
|
|
|
cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
|
| 25 Feb 2010 06:27 AM |
|
Posted By Liviu on 24 Feb 2010 06:43 PM
As far as the roof beams issue there are other low cost solutions, or we can use your steel panels.
Out of the mouths of babes |
|
| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
|
|
cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
|
| 25 Feb 2010 06:50 AM |
|
Posted By Liviu on 24 Feb 2010 07:06 PM
Posted By Wayne Zhang on 24 Feb 2010 06:47 PM
Chris, there is no corrosion issue from cement bonded particle board or fiber cement board.
Liviu, I am located in Toronto, Ontario. www.cbpb.org
Wayne,
I think you are wrong,Chris will find some corrosion problems with the cement board , wait and see. Liviu; Not saying there is a corrosion issue, this point has been brought up by other posters, thus far no one has been able to dispell that they corrode. After a cursory viewing of the cbpb.org web site I did not see anything to the affirm or rebutt the corrosion issue. the fibercement panels I have installed all had SS screws ($$) , so why is that? But even if the corrosion is a non-issue. I would not use fibercement for the following reasons: 1.weight, 2.limited lengths and need to splice 3. Fragile skins, breaks easily and is not easily repairable in the field (needing to reorder causing time delay on job) 4. when exposed to exsessive water becomes soft and pliable ( wonder if their testing has been doneunder these condions) 5. attachment of siding and roofing not tested or proven ( even hardi panel cannot be attached to hardi panel) My interest is for a cost competitive non-wood floor sheathing to replace our current use of 3/4" T&G plywood, it is the only component we still use in 2 story and higher. its great to say it's really strong stuff and there is no corrosion but show the testing that shows that. as Clara Peller would say ................."where's the beef?" |
|
| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
|
|
Wayne Zhang
New Member
Posts:20
|
| 25 Feb 2010 10:22 AM |
|
Armoroc is perfect to replace 3/4" T&G plywood. You could contact Nonnie Chrystal of Florida Showcase Green Envirohomes.
www.fsge.net
|
|
|
|
|
Jelly
Veteran Member
Posts:1017
|
| 26 Feb 2010 08:23 AM |
|
Sure you could replace T&G plywood with Armoroc, but at what price? You could use sheets of gold, too, if they were thick enough. |
|
|
|
|
Wayne Zhang
New Member
Posts:20
|
| 26 Feb 2010 09:34 AM |
|
It is cost effective, depends on the area and volume you are purchasing, $2.0-$2.5/ft2. |
|
|
|
|