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Last Post 09 Mar 2010 07:10 PM by Gsfrey. 5 Replies.
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Greg FreyermuthUser is Offline
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07 Mar 2010 02:50 PM
Here's a thought I had and something we are currently working with New Mexico State on getting a table of data to support my hypothesis. 

I think it better overall to have a tongue and groove, (EPS because it's what we do not because I think PU or steel ineffective), SIP floor with TJI's rather than a SIP floor with double splines or any other method of support becasue of the thermal bridge the 2 x's provide.  I think and I will look further into this, but the TJI's are cheaper than 2-2 x 10's or what ever else and the floor could be stiffer with TJI's on 4' centers.  If span were any issue I think maybe would could design an "Insulated" TJI as an alternative. 

At that point the load would matter not as a SIP of 6 1/2" or more of EPS can hold significant load with a TJI on 4' center the pointbecomes moot.  All infrastructure could be mounted in the crawl space which would or would not have to be insulated.  What if anything am I missing?

Thanks,
Greg Freyermuth<br>915-256-7563<br>[email protected]<br> www.energreensips.com
richmUser is Offline
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07 Mar 2010 10:18 PM
Greg,
I don't remember off-hand who - but a SIP manufacturer already has TJIs embedded in EPS for SIPs; and I don't remember the spacing. An insulated crawlspace would be an excellent design as everything can be in a conditioned space (does not have to be as warm as the living space).
Richm
wesUser is Offline
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08 Mar 2010 07:24 AM
How large a TJI would you have to use for 4' on center spacing?
If you are going to insulate the crawlspace and condition it, why insulate the floor, at all?
Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected]
Greg FreyermuthUser is Offline
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08 Mar 2010 06:44 PM
Rich,

I found it and I think it does not solve my problem. I want to avoid any thermal bridges and even the insulated TJI's would provide the very thing I am trying to avoid. I think the SIP floor with EPS tongue and groove is the answer. I think the next obstacle will be walls without splines, but in the meantime we will use SIP splines.

Wes,

Rich is exactly right. First I would only insulate the space to make it tolerable not to live in, but such that I could have mechanical, electrical and plumbing without fear of freezing. The SIP floor would be the bottom of the envelope. I think we can get the price down to a competitive point with the concrete alternative needing much the same insulation and not providing the access to the space as our crawl space does.

Greg

Greg Freyermuth<br>915-256-7563<br>[email protected]<br> www.energreensips.com
gregjUser is Offline
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09 Mar 2010 04:53 PM
I agree with WES. Use an ICF Foundation and then you can run your ductwork and other utilities in the crawl. Far fewer concerns (insulating ductwork, freezing pipes) that way.
Greg FreyermuthUser is Offline
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09 Mar 2010 07:10 PM
I can definitely see the benefit of a basement application of an ICF. I would still prefer to use a SIP floor regardless. But the more I research the ICF, the more I see its usefullness in the crawl space.
Greg Freyermuth<br>915-256-7563<br>[email protected]<br> www.energreensips.com
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