Greg Freyermuth
 Basic Member
 Posts:131
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| 07 Mar 2010 02:50 PM |
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Here's a thought I had and something we are currently working with New Mexico State on getting a table of data to support my hypothesis.
I think it better overall to have a tongue and groove, (EPS because it's what we do not because I think PU or steel ineffective), SIP floor with TJI's rather than a SIP floor with double splines or any other method of support becasue of the thermal bridge the 2 x's provide. I think and I will look further into this, but the TJI's are cheaper than 2-2 x 10's or what ever else and the floor could be stiffer with TJI's on 4' centers. If span were any issue I think maybe would could design an "Insulated" TJI as an alternative.
At that point the load would matter not as a SIP of 6 1/2" or more of EPS can hold significant load with a TJI on 4' center the pointbecomes moot. All infrastructure could be mounted in the crawl space which would or would not have to be insulated. What if anything am I missing?
Thanks, |
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| Greg Freyermuth<br>915-256-7563<br>[email protected]<br> www.energreensips.com |
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richm
 Basic Member
 Posts:107
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| 07 Mar 2010 10:18 PM |
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Greg, I don't remember off-hand who - but a SIP manufacturer already has TJIs embedded in EPS for SIPs; and I don't remember the spacing. An insulated crawlspace would be an excellent design as everything can be in a conditioned space (does not have to be as warm as the living space). Richm |
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wes
 Advanced Member
 Posts:810
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| 08 Mar 2010 07:24 AM |
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How large a TJI would you have to use for 4' on center spacing? If you are going to insulate the crawlspace and condition it, why insulate the floor, at all? |
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| Wes Shelby<br>Design Systems Group<br>Murray KY<br>[email protected] |
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Greg Freyermuth
 Basic Member
 Posts:131
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| 08 Mar 2010 06:44 PM |
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Rich, I found it and I think it does not solve my problem. I want to avoid any thermal bridges and even the insulated TJI's would provide the very thing I am trying to avoid. I think the SIP floor with EPS tongue and groove is the answer. I think the next obstacle will be walls without splines, but in the meantime we will use SIP splines. Wes, Rich is exactly right. First I would only insulate the space to make it tolerable not to live in, but such that I could have mechanical, electrical and plumbing without fear of freezing. The SIP floor would be the bottom of the envelope. I think we can get the price down to a competitive point with the concrete alternative needing much the same insulation and not providing the access to the space as our crawl space does. Greg
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| Greg Freyermuth<br>915-256-7563<br>[email protected]<br> www.energreensips.com |
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gregj
 Basic Member
 Posts:326
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| 09 Mar 2010 04:53 PM |
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I agree with WES. Use an ICF Foundation and then you can run your ductwork and other utilities in the crawl. Far fewer concerns (insulating ductwork, freezing pipes) that way. |
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Greg Freyermuth
 Basic Member
 Posts:131
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| 09 Mar 2010 07:10 PM |
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I can definitely see the benefit of a basement application of an ICF. I would still prefer to use a SIP floor regardless. But the more I research the ICF, the more I see its usefullness in the crawl space. |
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| Greg Freyermuth<br>915-256-7563<br>[email protected]<br> www.energreensips.com |
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