Steve, thanks for your reply.

I had priced EPS foam board many years ago with the idea to make up the panels using OSB both sides and installing the gyproc on the inside face. Then the panels could be tipped up into place from the outside. I wasn't planning on actually working with the foam.

Once I find a supplier of foam board I'll price it out and compare it to buying them already made. Keep in mind that mine don't need to be structural. I also plan on cutting chases before installation.
The roughing in of doors and windows can easily be done after the walls are up.

I dug out Alex Wade's book called "Guide To Affordable Houses", written in 1984. In one of the chapters he talks about "Insulated Panels". He also priced out the difference between buying the panels from a manufacturer and making them yourself. It was cost effective back then. I've yet to find out if it is nowadays.

I'm retiring from my current job and will have time on my hands to devote to a second post and beam and house. This time I plan on acting as general contractor.

I see you are with Grand County SIPS. Maybe you could give me an idea of the cost of panels from your company although you would be too far for delivery to my area.

I'll scan the pics out of Wade's book and post them to see if I can get some comments.

Chico

Eric.

I take it you will buy EPS foam board rather than manufacture it.

I wonder if anyone has any experience using the 3M type Mastic Adhesives for this purpose.

Since my panels will not be structural do I really need to use a vacuum press and if so are there plans available for these.

Chico

Steve,

Ok and thanks again.

Actually I plan on installing the sheetrock on the panels before installation. I will cut the openings for doors and windows letting the sheetrock project into the openings. The window casement then goes behind the sheetrock. The panels can easily be taped and painted with primer this way.

I live in Southern Ontario, too far from you but will look for the nearest supplier of foam board. Like I said I did contact one many years ago and the plans got dropped for various reasons.

I hope someone can provide some comment on the above method as I've never used it myself.

Chico

Eric,

Merry Christmas.

I'm in Southern Ontario, this is mentioned in the e-mail you replied to.
I'm just getting back into this and haven't explored what's available in this area. Although I'm sure I'm going to find out soon.

I'm actullay not in need of building a SIP but rather an IP (Insulating Panel) to enclose a post and beam home. I'll be approaching the building inspector very soon in the area where I want to build the home.

As this is kind of a way to have a second income on top of my pension because I'm retiring soon, I'm always interested in developing an idea and have been dreaming about SIPS and post and beam homes for the last 20 years.

From your prespective, is it cost effective to build your own panels and do you have any info you can share on home built presses.

Chico

Good point but I will use an IP rather than a SIP. I would still like to build a post and beam frame because I think they look awesome on the inside. Panels to enclose the post and beam frame are easily put together using unskilled labour and go up fast.
That double wall you're proposing can that be built in the form of a panel. That would be really interesting!! Might save me looking for foam.

Chico

Nesdon,

Finally I'm getting the feedback I hoped for. Thanks for the info. Yeah I knew you could just use a circular saw to cut out the openings. Did you build a frame into the opening or did you just simply insert the windows into the openings. What size circular saw did you use?

Chico

Hi Chico,

I did frame the openings. Dug out a bit of foam and flushed and leveled 2x6 inserts, then flashed them with reinforced building paper. This gave us backing on the inside for our finish, and a solid atachment for the jambs. With OSB on both sides, you might get away with using the finish and foam sealant to hold the jambs, but especially with all the working you get with doors, I'd think most panels would spec inserts.

We have 5.5" foam, rated at R32 overall if memory serves (it often doesn't) so we made cuts half way with a 7.25 skilsaw on the OSB side and then finished the rest of the foam and DW with the sawzall. Could have been done with a beam saw, a chain saw, or sawzall all the way, but the circ saw makes nice straight cuts and is easy to handle. With OSB on both sides, it migh be harder to get the two cuts to line up well, although it hardly matters with the 2x6 inserts.

BTW the stud sheer walls have  been used numerous times since we put the house up to add power and comm wiring.
 
Nesdon

Nesdon,

I believe I'll also frame the window and door openings like you did.
Were you using maunfactured panels?
I know you would like to build your own panels. Did you do any research on where to buy the foam? Could you explain what a stud sheer wall is. I presume that's a wall you build on the inside.

Chico

Eric,

Do you have any info on how to build the vacuum press? Where are you getting the foam?
If you get set up I'd be interested in doing that down here in southeren Ontario.
Your cost of $2.50 per sq ft is much more attractive than buying the foam in slabs.

I would build the panels for myself and therefore would not need certification.

This also goes out to anyone out there who could help on info on vacuum presses, where to buy foam and glue.

Chico

Plasti-Fab
The Largest Canadian EPS foam supplier
[b]1-88-THINK EPS
(1-888-446-5377)
[/b][u]Web Site: link[/u]

Nesdon,

I'm going to take a guess and say that the firehose would be used as a clamp.

I took a look at the Plasti-Fab website and I believe they're mainly supplying the ready made products. For now I'm investigating the idea of buying the liquid foam and making my own panels using a press. Any comments?

Chico

Petru,

Have you had any luck in finding a supplier of EPS foam here in Ontario. I contacted Plasti Fab and they directed me to Home Hardware and that's not really what I'd like to do.

Chico

Petru,

I have a quote from Home Hardware on the foam. 6" foam 4 by 9 ft is $64.00. R value is R22 (Type 1). Plastifab is the manufacturer. 7/16 OSB is $6.00 each. Total cost for a 4 by 9 ft panel 6 " thickness foam with OSB inside and out will be $76.00 or $2.11 per sq ft. This does'nt include taxes but should include delivery.

Chico

Nolan,

Thanks for the link buddy. I was hoping someone could provide me names. There's even a supplier in my hometown of Barrie in Ontario. Before I get too excited I'll contact them tomorrow and let you know what they say.

I have'nt decided on the glue and it'll probably depend on what's available locally.

Chico

Petru,

I've got good news. Thanks to the link Nolan sent me I was able to find a supplier in Toronto.www.legerlite.ca 416 335-0192. They gave me a quote of $38.40 per panel, 4 X 8 ft X 6" thick. Type 1, EPS. Total R value will be 22.5.
I calculate $12 for 2 sheets OSB, $38.40 for the EPS, $10.00 for adhesive for a total of $60.40 per 4 by 8 ft panel finished. Which makes it $1.88 per sq ft.
They custom slice from 30" blocks.
They don't deliver, but I'd be happy to pick it up at that price.

Chico

Dan,

So it looks like the glue from Rona works out to $10 per panel. As far as your press, I'm having a hard time picturing it but I think since we don't need much pressure for the application we'll be using the panels for then your idea should work because pipe clamps would supply enough of the pressure you would need to allow the glue to bond.
In the mean time I'll try to come up with another idea.

Chico

Joe,

Believe it or not we're supposed to be Metric here in Canada also but the building industry still persists with Imperial. It's hard for some of us to refer to a two by four as a 50 by 100.
Our tape measures quite often are in both measuring systems.

As far as your question goes, it seems like a good price however unless the EPS has a really high R (Insulating Value) then it's too thin for here. The eps I'm looking at using is approx. 150mm thick.

I've seen a website in China that has a contact here in Toronto and they make the panels specifically for the Canadian market. I never got a price from them because in the end it's just a lot easier for me to build them locally now that I have a quote that makes it quite reasonable.

Thanks,

Chico

I'm not an expert but I think I would use a certain amount of glue to hold everything together even though the panels aren't structural.

Definitely you're going to have a nice roof insulation system in the end.

Chico

Brett,

I don't aniticipate having problems with the building inspector due to the timber frame providing the structural strength.
I think your idea of using come along straps would work becuase all you really need is enough clamping pressure for the glue to bond to the material being used. Since your panels and mine are not Structural Insulated Panels (SIPS) but are Insulated Panels (IPS).

I built a home up near Pembroke some years back and had no problems with the building inspector. It was a matter of sitting down with him and convincing him that I was building a solidly built home according to code. It was a post and beam home with traditional studs between the posts. I used fibreglass insulation between the studs. I'm pretty sure the panels that you and I are proposing to use would be an improvement over that system that I used.

Take a look through the e-mails in this thread and you'll find that it should work out substantially cheaper to build your own panels and I'm convinced you don't have to be an expert craftsman.

However please don't take me for an expert. I don't do this for a living. I've only built the one house!!

My research is at a standstill as I am being posted to Kingston and am waiting till I move there to start looking for land.

Pse let me know if and when you start building and I would be interested in any new info you are able to provide.

Thanks,

Chico

Nolan;

I just thimk it is amusing reading these posts about DIY panels, it make about as much sense as me making my own carpet because I can get a good deal on a loom and yarn.
I predict that when it is all said and done nobody will do anything, its all a bunch of talk eating up valuable oxygen.

Mortarsprayer;

My deed restrictions don't allow chickens, but then again I woudn't want chickens. Ducks would be OK but not chickens.

When the power goes out my automatic propane generator kicks on in 20 seconds and powers my entire house along with my LPG tankless HW system.

I am a not talker, I am a doer!

If one wants to build there own SIPS  -  go ahead, but I don't want to hear them 2 years from now on this forum wondering why their walls are delaminating.

What scares me is a poor unsuspecting home buyer purchasing a home 5 years after the fact that comes apart at the seams because some gung-ho yahoo wants to stand back and say "Yep I dun it myself"

In the mean time SIPs would get a bad rap because of an idiot

No I do not sell panels, but I am an advocate of letting engineers make engineered products, of brain surgeons doing brain surgery and stump grinders grinding stumps.

It's great you have a free source for EPS, I would recommend that you grind it up and sell box packing.

Is that EPS Type I ? , Type IX? ..Type VIII? or doesn't it matter cause its free, see you all are on dangerous ground and some one is going to get hurt in the process of you guys not knowing what the hell your doing. Hopefully you will just hurt yourself! and it will be a lesson well learned.

Posted By the_postman on 24 Jul 2013 01:23 AM
When it comes to owner-made SIPs, the most appropriate and forgiving adhesive is the Isoset product made by Ashland chemical: http://www.ashland.com/Ashland/Static/Documents/APM/ISOSET%20CX-47%20tds.pdf    Build yourself a home made vacuum tent and apply eight pounds of vacuum per square inch and keep it constant for about two hours and you are in business.

Posted By cmkavala on 24 Jul 2013 08:08 AM

it is about as smart as making your own sheets of plywood with skins and glue, or making your own concrete blocks in your back yard

Posted By cmkavala on 24 Jul 2013 10:43 AM
It is an absolute insane idea,
Panel companies spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on engineering and testing, a DYI has no accreditation or documentation for building departments, no recourse if it doesn't turn out good,
a vacuum bag is no small endeavor.
not to mention OSB sheets come in 4ft x 24ft or 8ft x 24 ft sheets, steel comes in 6000# coils
it takes a great deal of space and industrial equipment, just to handle the materials

Posted By Kevin_in_Denver on 03 Sep 2013 11:00 AM
I agree with the SIP experts who have weighed in here: No, it's impractical to make your own SIPs. But I have a specific non-structural application for a set of insulated doors that I couldn't find commercially available, and it came down to this: Could I make a stiff, flat,light, stressed skin insulated panel door? Here's a link to what I did: http://www.youtube.com/edit?ns=1&o=U&video_id=9FABz-xEnQA

Posted By Kevin_in_Denver on 05 Sep 2013 12:24 AM
Here's that link:
http://youtu.be/9FABz-xEnQA

I am not suggesting that people make these to sell... If you live in an area where there are no building codes and you don't need to insure your structure, this might be just the ticket for you.

More on vacuum tent design but in the meantime, here you go....

ISOSET ADHESIVE LAMINATING GUIDE FOR STRUCTURAL PANELS

INTRODUCTION:  ISOSET is the leading adhesive for producing structural panels.  ISOSET WD3-A322 emulsion resin combined with ISOSET CX-47 crosslinker provides the east of production, rapid and dependable production rates, and long-term durability demanded by the structural panel industry.

TYPICAL MATERIALS USED:

            Cores:             Expanded or extruded polystyrene, polyurethane, and

                                    isocyanurate foams or honeycomb.

            Skins:              Waferboard, oriented strandboard (OSB), particleboard,

                                    gypsum or cementboard, and plywood.

            Facings:          Aluminum (backed or primed) and fiberglass reinforced plastic

                                    (FRP). 

NOTE:  The mechanism for curing ISOSET adhesives is for water from the glueline to be absorbed into one or both of the substrates being bonded during the pressing time and the period of time after the stack has been removed from the press and allowed to stand.  After the water is absorbed, the crosslinker reacts with the adhesive and crosslinks it.  Because of this requirement, direct foam to metal or foam to plastic laminations cannot be made with ISOSET adhesives because the foam is not porous enough to allow complete absorption of the water from the glueline.

SAFETY AND HANDLING:  Workers should wear proper gloves and eye protection while mixing the adhesive.  Gloves are also recommended for workers handling the adhesive coated panels.  Consult Ashland’s Material Safety Data Sheets for health, safety and handling information before using these products.

MIXING INFORMATION:  Add 16.7 parts by weight of ISOSET CX-47 crosslinker to 100 parts of ISOSET WD3-A322 resin emulsion.  Other ISOSET emulsions and crosslinkers are available.  Contact your Ashland representative for more information.

Mix slowly until the brown streaks caused by the addition of crosslinker disappear and a uniform tan color is obtained (3 minutes maximum).  Avoid overmixing.  Because of limited pot life, batch size should match the use rate.  Pot life is dependent on temperature; at 70°F a pot life of 120 minutes can be expected.  At temperatures above 90°F, guard against dry-out on the roll coater.

GLUE SPREADER:  The roll grooving for minimum squeeze-out should be 14 x ½ grooves/inch composite (Black Brothers Code A2137).  Wet rollers with water before placing glue on the spreader to facilitate cleanup.

SPREAD RATE:  To establish the spread rate, weigh a 1 Sq.Ft. piece of substrate.  Fill the bottom nip of the roll coater and run the test piece through the coater.  After the correct weight has been established, fill the top nip and run additional test pieces through until the correct weight for both sides is established.  Avoid rollback of the adhesive on the test piece, since this will give a false high reading for spread rate.

Recommended coating weights for the various composites are as follows:

<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

<!--[if gte mso 9]> Adjust rollers until the correct spread rate is obtained.  At warm temperatures, (>80°F), it will be necessary to increase spread rate to maintain a 25 minute stack time.  At cooler temperatures or shorter assembly times, lower spread rates are possible.

ASSEMBLY TIME (STACK TIME):  Once the laminating of the structural panels has started, the maximum time before placing the stack of panels under pressure is 30 minutes.  Allow 25 minutes to build the stack and 5 minutes to place the stack in the press and put it under pressure.  This applies to ambient temperatures of 65°F-75°F.  Higher temperatures will cause dry-out and require a higher spread rate or shorter assembly time.  When bonding OSB or waferboard, the panel temperature should be between 55°F and 80°F.  Keep the open assembly time, when the glueline is fully exposed to the air, below 1 minute.

PRESSURE:  The recommended amount of pressure needed to bond foam core panels is dependent on the type, density and thickness tolerance of the foam.  Some initial compression of the foam is desirable, however, compression set should be avoided.  As a general guide use:

<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

<!--[if gte mso 9]>  

If the adhesive spread rate and pressure are correct, small beads of squeeze-out should be observed around the perimeter of each panel.

When using a vacuum bag press for the higher density foams, the tolerances of the foam must be good to obtain intimate contact all over the panel; maximum available pressure must be used.

LAMINATING FACE MATERIALS:  The recommended pressure for laminating FRP or metal to OSB or waferboard is 40 psi if done in a separate step.  It is possible to make foam core panels with FRP or metal to wood facings in one step if the foam core can withstand higher pressure.  Successful 5-ply laminations have been made in one step at 10 psi pressure.  Check the foam to be sure that 10 psi pressure does not initiate compression set.  The recommended press times for various core materials are as follows:

Do not laminate at temperatures below 55°F, measured at the glueline.  Add 15 minutes to the above between 55°F and 60°F.

DRY-OUT:  If there is a break in the laminating operation for more than 30 minutes, such as during lunch, pour a small amount of water (4 oz.) over each roller to prevent dry-out.  Too much water will alter bond performance and cause delamination.  Do not allow adhesive to dry on the rollers.  If this occurs, cleanup is difficult.

When temperature exceeds 80°F, the cure cycle of the adhesive shortens.  Therefore, watch the adhesive on the rollers closely for premature dry-out.  Dry-out can be minimized by keeping the rollcoater nip full of adhesive.

PROCESSING INTERACTIONS:  Be aware of the interrelationship between spread rate,  moisture content of the skin, assembly time, temperature and press time.  For example, with a shorter assembly time (e.g. 15 min.), lower spread rates may be used.  Conversely, for longer assembly times, a higher spread rate may be required.  Higher moisture content skins may require lower spread rates and longer press times.  The absorbency of the substrates also influences these variables.  Contact your Ashland Technical Representative for specific processing parameters at your facility.

<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

<!--[if gte mso 9]> CLEAN-UP:  Follow the clean-up procedures recommended by the rollcoater manufacturer.  Warm water (100°F)  makes clean-up easier.  The use of Thermaclean¹ resin emulsifier helps reduce cleaning time.  Thoroughly clean rolls, troughs, and in and out feed areas.

Release coatings can facilitate clean-up of metal surfaces.  The use of Bates Boothcoating² or Product No. 627³ has been successful

¹Trademark, Cook Composites & Polymers, Heath, OH; Phone:  (614) 929-2866

²Trademark, U.S. Coatings Corporation, Buffalo, NY; Phone: (716) 833-9366

³Trademark, Associated Chemists, Portland, OR; Phone: (503) 659-1708

Posted By the_postman on 07 Sep 2013 03:02 AM
<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 Okay, folks, here are the official instructions for making SIP's with Isoset.  It ain't rocket science.  Your best bet is building a vacuum tent the heavy vinyl-coated cloth.  I'll post more information about how to build one of those shortly.  Also, there are ways of applying the Isoset that don't involve purchasing a roll coater - these are very costly.  One option I've considered would be to use a Wagner power roller -- you'd have to do some experiments to figure out how many grams of Isoset the pump pumps per second.  If you started with a roller that's loaded with Isoset and you push the button to actuate the pump and then roll the roller in measured passes, you'd probably get a fairly uniform coating of Isoset. 

I am not suggesting that people make these to sell... If you live in an area where there are no building codes and you don't need to insure your structure, this might be just the ticket for you.

More on vacuum tent design but in the meantime, here you go....

ISOSET ADHESIVE LAMINATING GUIDE FOR STRUCTURAL PANELS

 

INTRODUCTION:  ISOSET is the leading adhesive for producing structural panels.  ISOSET WD3-A322 emulsion resin combined with ISOSET CX-47 crosslinker provides the east of production, rapid and dependable production rates, and long-term durability demanded by the structural panel industry.

 

TYPICAL MATERIALS USED:

 

            Cores:             Expanded or extruded polystyrene, polyurethane, and

                                    isocyanurate foams or honeycomb.

 

            Skins:              Waferboard, oriented strandboard (OSB), particleboard,

                                    gypsum or cementboard, and plywood.

 

            Facings:          Aluminum (backed or primed) and fiberglass reinforced plastic

                                    (FRP). 

 

NOTE:  The mechanism for curing ISOSET adhesives is for water from the glueline to be absorbed into one or both of the substrates being bonded during the pressing time and the period of time after the stack has been removed from the press and allowed to stand.  After the water is absorbed, the crosslinker reacts with the adhesive and crosslinks it.  Because of this requirement, direct foam to metal or foam to plastic laminations cannot be made with ISOSET adhesives because the foam is not porous enough to allow complete absorption of the water from the glueline.

 

SAFETY AND HANDLING:  Workers should wear proper gloves and eye protection while mixing the adhesive.  Gloves are also recommended for workers handling the adhesive coated panels.  Consult Ashland’s Material Safety Data Sheets for health, safety and handling information before using these products.

MIXING INFORMATION:  Add 16.7 parts by weight of ISOSET CX-47 crosslinker to 100 parts of ISOSET WD3-A322 resin emulsion.  Other ISOSET emulsions and crosslinkers are available.  Contact your Ashland representative for more information.

 

Mix slowly until the brown streaks caused by the addition of crosslinker disappear and a uniform tan color is obtained (3 minutes maximum).  Avoid overmixing.  Because of limited pot life, batch size should match the use rate.  Pot life is dependent on temperature; at 70°F a pot life of 120 minutes can be expected.  At temperatures above 90°F, guard against dry-out on the roll coater.

GLUE SPREADER:  The roll grooving for minimum squeeze-out should be 14 x ½ grooves/inch composite (Black Brothers Code A2137).  Wet rollers with water before placing glue on the spreader to facilitate cleanup.

 

SPREAD RATE:  To establish the spread rate, weigh a 1 Sq.Ft. piece of substrate.  Fill the bottom nip of the roll coater and run the test piece through the coater.  After the correct weight has been established, fill the top nip and run additional test pieces through until the correct weight for both sides is established.  Avoid rollback of the adhesive on the test piece, since this will give a false high reading for spread rate.

 

Recommended coating weights for the various composites are as follows:

Construction	Spread Rate	Coating Weight 1 Sq.Ft. Test Piece
Skins to Foam Core ·         Expanded Polystyrene 1 pcf	50-55 lbs/1000 ft2	23-25 grams
·         Isocyanurate 1.5 pcf	45-50 lbs/1000 ft2	21-23 grams
·         Extruded Polystyrene 2 pcf	45-50 lbs/1000 ft2	21-23 grams
·         Metal or FRP to Plywood 36 pcf	35-40 lbs/1000 ft2	16-18 grams

 

<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

<!--[if gte mso 9]> Adjust rollers until the correct spread rate is obtained.  At warm temperatures, (>80°F), it will be necessary to increase spread rate to maintain a 25 minute stack time.  At cooler temperatures or shorter assembly times, lower spread rates are possible.

 

ASSEMBLY TIME (STACK TIME):  Once the laminating of the structural panels has started, the maximum time before placing the stack of panels under pressure is 30 minutes.  Allow 25 minutes to build the stack and 5 minutes to place the stack in the press and put it under pressure.  This applies to ambient temperatures of 65°F-75°F.  Higher temperatures will cause dry-out and require a higher spread rate or shorter assembly time.  When bonding OSB or waferboard, the panel temperature should be between 55°F and 80°F.  Keep the open assembly time, when the glueline is fully exposed to the air, below 1 minute.

 

PRESSURE:  The recommended amount of pressure needed to bond foam core panels is dependent on the type, density and thickness tolerance of the foam.  Some initial compression of the foam is desirable, however, compression set should be avoided.  As a general guide use:

<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

<!--[if gte mso 9]>  

Core	Density	Pressure
Expanded Polystyrene	1.0 pcf	5-7 psi
Isocyanurate	1.5 pcf	12-14 psi
Extruded Polystyrene	2.0 pcf	35-40 psi
Plywood	36 pcf	40-50 psi

 

If the adhesive spread rate and pressure are correct, small beads of squeeze-out should be observed around the perimeter of each panel.

 

When using a vacuum bag press for the higher density foams, the tolerances of the foam must be good to obtain intimate contact all over the panel; maximum available pressure must be used.

 

LAMINATING FACE MATERIALS:  The recommended pressure for laminating FRP or metal to OSB or waferboard is 40 psi if done in a separate step.  It is possible to make foam core panels with FRP or metal to wood facings in one step if the foam core can withstand higher pressure.  Successful 5-ply laminations have been made in one step at 10 psi pressure.  Check the foam to be sure that 10 psi pressure does not initiate compression set.  The recommended press times for various core materials are as follows:

 

Foam Core	Press Time
Expanded Polystyrene	45 minutes
Isocyanurate	60 minutes
Extruded Polystyrene	60 minutes

 

Do not laminate at temperatures below 55°F, measured at the glueline.  Add 15 minutes to the above between 55°F and 60°F.

 

DRY-OUT:  If there is a break in the laminating operation for more than 30 minutes, such as during lunch, pour a small amount of water (4 oz.) over each roller to prevent dry-out.  Too much water will alter bond performance and cause delamination.  Do not allow adhesive to dry on the rollers.  If this occurs, cleanup is difficult.

 

When temperature exceeds 80°F, the cure cycle of the adhesive shortens.  Therefore, watch the adhesive on the rollers closely for premature dry-out.  Dry-out can be minimized by keeping the rollcoater nip full of adhesive.

 

PROCESSING INTERACTIONS:  Be aware of the interrelationship between spread rate,  moisture content of the skin, assembly time, temperature and press time.  For example, with a shorter assembly time (e.g. 15 min.), lower spread rates may be used.  Conversely, for longer assembly times, a higher spread rate may be required.  Higher moisture content skins may require lower spread rates and longer press times.  The absorbency of the substrates also influences these variables.  Contact your Ashland Technical Representative for specific processing parameters at your facility.

<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

<!--[if gte mso 9]> CLEAN-UP:  Follow the clean-up procedures recommended by the rollcoater manufacturer.  Warm water (100°F)  makes clean-up easier.  The use of Thermaclean¹ resin emulsifier helps reduce cleaning time.  Thoroughly clean rolls, troughs, and in and out feed areas.

Release coatings can facilitate clean-up of metal surfaces.  The use of Bates Boothcoating² or Product No. 627³ has been successful

 

 

¹Trademark, Cook Composites & Polymers, Heath, OH; Phone:  (614) 929-2866

²Trademark, U.S. Coatings Corporation, Buffalo, NY; Phone: (716) 833-9366

³Trademark, Associated Chemists, Portland, OR; Phone: (503) 659-1708

<!--[if gte mso 9]>



You forgot to include the STAPLES "That was Easy " Button

Posted By the_postman on 07 Sep 2013 03:02 AM
<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 I am not suggesting that people make these to sell... If you live in an area where there are no building codes and you don't need to insure your structure, this might be just the ticket for you.

Posted By Blayden on 07 Dec 2013 03:13 AM
Greetings everyone, This is my first post. I just recently found this site during my research into sips. I am planning to build a house soon and I want to use other than conventional framing methods. This will be the second house I built. The first was using ICF's which I enjoyed using. I had never worked construction prior to building this house and at the time, the only real experience I had in carpentry was some remodeling work on the first house I bought. I designed the house, drew the plans even, and did about 90% of the construction of house myself while working full time. The house turned out great and passed all inspections with no problems. Here is where I am going with this post. Before starting this project I did a lot of research. I talked to a lot of people. I built the first ICF house in my county and I have a very difficult building department. Here is the thing. I did it when "professionals" told me I shouldn't. Now I am contemplating building with SIPS. This string has me considering building my own SIPS well not SIPS but insulated panels because I am using a log frame structure. I have learned alot from this discussion and will do more research before I decide to either build my own panels or buy from a manufacture. There are some people in the SIPs industry using this site to talk down to those considering building their own SIPs. I will never consider buying any products from you or your company you are a part of. Get off your high horse. Its you people that are giving the SIPS industry a bad name. Not us who are considering building something ourselves. Oh and heres news for you industry guys... I know there are people on this site that can DIY build better panels than you sell...Stop treating people like they are morons... Blayden

Posted By Blayden on 07 Dec 2013 08:20 PM
No I didnt build my own ICF blocks. These blocks are very different than SIPs. They are not load bearing. The concrete is. The ones I used had the ABS web every 8" that held the block together for the concrete and acted as the nail plate for interior and exterior material. Much more complicated that the SIP. The issue I have with some people on this board is that they have become very defensive against the DIY er being able to build an effective SIP. This doesnt make sense to me.

I like the idea of using SIPS. If I go with SIPs I intend to build them myself. Sheesh there is nothing being said here that makes it sound impossible, dangerous, or economical disadvantageous to give it a try.

But, again, I love the idea of building my own insulated panels.

Posted By Blayden on 07 Dec 2013 08:20 PM
 The issue I have with some people on this board is that they have become very defensive against the DIY er being able to build an effective SIP.

Posted By the_postman on 08 Dec 2013 11:26 AM
A fish scale capable of weighing a 100 lb fish would be perfect for this test -- determine how much tension is required to cause the test segment to delaminate.

Posted By the_postman on 08 Dec 2013 12:08 PM
I was proposing to test a four square inch section, not a 144 square inch section.

Posted By Blayden on 08 Dec 2013 01:03 PM
George Tom, I dont think I ever said drywall was a structural member. Postman thanks for giving us some testing tips. Its fantastic. but I am confused on the delamination test. The area of the test piece is 16 square inches so wouldnt it be 4x4x16=256 but then I think to reach this figure, the delamination would have to start from the center of the test piece rather than the edge where the weight isnt as evenly distributed.


Kavala, where did you get that figure. When I convert the postman's psi to lpf,, I get about 192 lpf which is about half of what is recommended by you. According to the Structural Insulated Panel Association, there are no industry standards yet. However I do have add according to their website, they are working on developing industry standards of performance for SIPS.

Posted By the_postman on 09 Dec 2013 04:41 PM
It's pretty obvious that guys who make SIPS for a living feel a little threatened when the exact procedures and methods are put out there for folks to see. These methods are those that were used by a manufacturer I was associated with. This is not rocket science. I'm hoping that folks will understand how simple these panels are to build and they might be interested in starting companies of their own. Under IRC regulations, they can build 4 X 8 panels all day long without the onerous testing requirements placed on builders of jumbos. A qualified engineer who is IRC approved can certify a production line of these panels and the monthly expense is not that much. My goal is to get people excited about making panels and providing them with the necessary resources, not about safeguarding the profits of the large manufacturers who'll stop at nothing to inhibit new competitors from entering the industry.

Posted By Blayden on 09 Dec 2013 05:59 PM
Why are you in the SIP industry so protective? Its obvious that we have ruffled your delicate feathers and I cant understand why? Right now you have a SIPs association. Yes, this association defines a SIP as foam between two pieces of OSB. However, this association also states there are no industry standards. Why is that? The reality is that the SIPs industry is young. Its not well established yet. However, anyone can become a member of the association. Toben, Jelly Lbear, Kavala, are you guys members? With no standards, no one, not even this SIPs association is a real authority on SIPS.

Now we have Jelly telling me what I describe for a SIP is not a SIP. This is a very narrow view which in addition to the attitudes shown by industry insiders will hurt the advancement of the SIPs industry. Its like saying "there is only one way to make an airplane."

The name SIP, structural insulated panels gives me the idea that there is more than one way to make this panel. I think I will start a new association for the block of foam with 2x material and call it the "Better SIPS Association" better yet, maybe I will include all the different types of SIPs to include the OSB sandwich.

You guys really need to get over yourselves. You are really only talking about a piece of foam between 2 pieces of glued together scrap wood. Its not rocket science. You guys are actually insulted by the idea that someone outside the industry would actually consider making SIPs. OK Torben, you are an engineer and you know to calculate stresses and some about the material. Does that mean we dont? What are the minimum and maximum numbers for delamination? Where is the safe zone? You guys have done nothing to add to this conversation but throw out insults. Sheesh grow up. Pencils Torben. Really?

Dont get me wrong... There are some people out there who should not attempt this. These are the same people who should not be building a house. However, what the people on this board are trying to do is do it right. We are exchanging ideas to help each other out because we want them to do it right. We want to do it right. I will not put my family in a house I dont feel is safe. I wouldnt want you to put your family in a house that was not safe. However, for the most part, people who are using this board and this string to get and share information have shown they want to do it right and will take the steps to do it right. Research is the first step in doing it right. This is the first step. Industry guys... the DIYer will not hurt your industry. People like you will and have. At least in my book.

Posted By [email protected] on 27 Dec 2013 11:58 AM
What about block of Styrofoam with pre-cut recesses for studs and top / bottom plates so it slides down into framing before sheathing?

Posted By Tuokko on 10 Mar 2014 11:30 PM
Hi new guy here.. Planning on making my own ISP as well. The size and use of my project does not warrant the cost of a manufactured panel. I would like to to see the discussion continue as I have a few question myself.. IE For the DIY does a vapor barrier become a consideration?

I know Chris and a few others have a different agenda but unless u can provide some truly useful information can u please refrain from your totally biased comments .