We recently (2007) built a house with a SIP shell (6" walls, 8" roof). Forget the fact that we can hear birds walkin' across the shingles - I want to know what all the LOUD popping noises are! My hunch is they are a result of expansion and contraction of the panels (?) due to outside temperature fluctuations, as they occur most often as the sun heats temps up in the earlier part of the day, and then again as temps cool as the sun sets. (On overcast days, whatever time of year, the popping does not happen as much if at all.) The popping is sometimes a small sound - almost inaudible. At other times, I can feel its vibration through the floor, and the sound is quite frightening, and will even wake me up at night. We have been up in the attic spaces and see no sign of anything coming apart :) The foundation - poured 9ft, 9"thick concrete walls show some hairline cracks normal with settling. All ceiling drywall seems fine - no nail pops. The popping has increased since we built - it was at first, occasional - now it's become almost "musical" in its frequency. Any ideas anyone? Anyone else had this experience? Thanks for any advice :)

SARobinson;

only speculating there may be insufficient fasteners in the splines creating movement of panels independently, what area of the country are you in?

Did you use OSB/EPS SIPS for the walls and roof?  What kind of splines were used to connect the panels?

Yes,  we have the same type noise.  We built 9 years ago and it has not decreased at all.  It occurs most in morning sun and after sunset cooling.  We had a heavy snowfall this past winter with about a foot of snow on the room all winter.  We were concerned about the weight load.  It seems now the noise has increased this spring.  Not sure if it was due to the heavy weight.   But it is a little disconcerning.   Like the intial posting, we have not had any nail pops or wallboard cracking.  Hopefully it is not structurally unsafe as we have learned to live with noises.  But if we did have concerns about the structural soundness, any suggestions on who to hire to do some testing ?

I built my house in 2006 with 10” thick Porter OSB SIP panels for the roof with 2X dimensional lumber splines. I have a vaulted ceiling with large panels and 12’ spans in the loft area and two flat roof dormers in the bedroom/bathroom area. My house is at 8600 ft in the Rocky Mountains. Since it was new, the roof over the loft area has made noises, usually in the evening shortly after the sunset. I was concerned and called the SIP rep and asked him about it, and he told me that with large roof panels in climates where there are fast, large temperature changes, it was not uncommon for the roof panels to make expansion and contraction noises. He called it SIP panel creep. As others have mentioned, I have not noticed damage or displacement of the ceiling, and now that I think about it, it’s been a couple of weeks since I’ve heard any noise.

Steve
GrandCountySIPs.com

Steve, Thanks for sharing your info. Coincidently, your roof design sounds very similar to mine, i.e. the vaulted ceiling with the flat roof dormer. That is where i hear a good deal of the cracks, where the dormer support wall sets on the roof sip.

I have also noticed this spring when we get rainy, humid weather the popping noice decreases dramatically and even stops. Do you think that should be a concern ?

Fred

Fred,

I think there’s a combination of things going on here. First, during this kind of weather, there’s not much temperature variation, and second, wood products tends to swell a little when it’s damp, so the panels will fit a little tighter and not move around very much. I don’t believe it’s anything to be concerned about. I have given this issue some thought, and I’m going to suggest to my clients in the future to use a flexible glue along the top of the supporting beams between the panels and beams to absorb some of this movement and eliminate noise.

Steve
GrandCountySIPs.com

trigem1,

From experience, glue applied to the tops of beams and walls, before the panels are set, works great to reduce panel expansion and contraction noises.

Newbie questions here, but if the sip roof is covered with a steel roofing instead of shingles, would you still get noise issue?
In the planning stages of my home, and am looking at steel sips for the roof deck with steel roofing over the sip deck and would prefer not to have a noise issues.

furring strips on the inside of any sip helps isolate sound also a thicker panel is beneficial

I have found that a bituminous roll underlayment applied directly to the steel sip, prior to a roof finish, substantially reduces rain vibration and exterior noise transmission.

The SIP noise described as popping or creaking is a result of movement most commonly associated with heat. It can be as a result of moisture changes but only in OSB or cement skins. The metal skin is strictly a heat issue. The variations in expansion and contraction of two components cause a sudden slip that creates the noise. The greater the friction, the greater the noise. To reduce the friction use mastic, caulk, sill-seal, or similar at contact point (top of wall or top of beam) To eliminate variations in expansion and contraction, eliminate dissimilar material ie: keep the lumber out and away from your OSB or cement skin. The skin responds to heat quicker and the difference in heat related growth cause friction in the spline. Another good reason to let structural panels do the structural work and keep the unnecessary lumber out of your roof (not to mention the cost, added assembly time, and thermal bridging). The last recommendation to help minimize the noise is to buffer the heat transfer between roofing and SIP with a back ventilated roof. The firring strips that Chris mentioned only help on the outside. Unless the strips you were referring to were sound-isolating such as hat-channel. The thickness of the panel will not matter. The solid composite nature of a SIP allows it to transfer all contact sounds very well. Therefore any sound emanating from within the panel will easily transmit through the roof as a contact sound. If your building in a cold wet climate you should already be strongly considering a back-ventilated or self-ventilating roofing system. The dozens of projects I've investigated for noise were lumber laden and in many cases the proper application of mastic/sealant was in question. This may suggest that noisy panels are an indication of poor installation. I wouldn't make that blanket suggestion.

The good news is that most cases I follow report a reduction in noise after a period of a couple years. This would seem to suggest that the friction points are smoothing out. In addition, none of the projects with noise ever linked the offending sound to a structural defect.

Al Cobb

Al;

I was refering to hat channel or RC-1 channel

hat channels or RC-1 channel

One of the best ways to mitigate creep noise especially in hot climates is to build with a cold roof as mentioned. There is a new (tyvek type) building wrap that is made by DELTA that has airspace built into it. It is about the cost of Tyvek $1 a sq. ft. and eliminates the need for furring strips. That in addition to ridge venting is cheep insurance as some SIP manufacturers require a "cold" roof for their warrenty.

About SARobinson’s post with those birds that can be heard walking around on the SIP roof and all the other posts on this forum about SIP homeowner’s frustrations with the transmission of sound through their SIP walls…

 

The APA (aka The Engineered Wood Association) has an informative document on their website (apawood dot org) that is titled “Noise-Rated Systems” which includes a chart that describes the sound resistance of walls with different STC ratings.  The chart describes a wall assembly that is only rated STC 30 as “loud speech can be understood fairly well.”  According to one major SIP manufacturer’s technical bulletin on sound transmission, their OSB/EPS SIPs only have an STC rating of STC 28.  I have been told by a number of people who are knowledgeable about STC ratings that conventionally framed and insulated exterior walls have an STC rating of about STC 40.  The APA document describes a wall assembly that is rated STC 42 as “loud speech audible as a murmur.”  Another good source for information on STC ratings is a website called STC ratings dot com.  On their “Rules of Thumb” page it shows that a difference of plus (or minus) ten points in an STC rating creates a change in apparent loudness of half (or twice) as loud.  The North American Insulation Manufacturers Association’s (NAIMA) website at NAIMA dot org is also a good source of information on this subject.

 
The big question that needs to be answered here is are potential SIP homebuyers being informed by the SIP manufacturers, suppliers, and builders and the SIP industry of the difference between the sound resistance (airborne and surface contact) of SIP walls and traditionally framed and insulated exterior walls?  Are potential SIP homeowners being told that there are soundproofing materials that can be installed and other measures that can be taken during construction that can increase the STC rating of SIP walls significantly and bring them up to the standards of traditionally framed construction?  See soundproof drywall, resilient furring channels and other methods of increasing the STC ratings of exterior walls.

I suggest trying to carry on a conversation through an exterior SIP wall (one without added soundproofing measures) and then attempting to do the same through a conventionally framed and insulated exterior wall.  The SIP industry needs to be completely honest and upfront about this issue.  The many posts that are on this forum about this subject show that there are a lot of suffering and puzzled SIP homeowners that are looking for honest answers. 

choward;
 
the SIP industry needs to start recommending furring for sound control, something we have done for years, steel hat channels are just 25 cent a foot and an effective / economical way to dampen sound with an air space

Ok, this is real unscientific with no data to back it up, but I've had many comments from visitors that my house was the quietest house they had ever been in. I’ve got the Colorado River right down below me and it’s running very high and is very noisy. If you open a door or window, the sound is very noticeable. When you close the door or window, you can’t hear it at all. And, if the doors and windows are closed, the dogs can’t hear a car come into my gravel driveway. So, I’d like to see some definitive tests as to transfer of common sounds, manufacturer, thickness of the SIP’s, drywall on the inside, siding, sound transfer of high, sound medium and low pitched sounds. I think there are many variables that affect the transfer of sound through a wall, and establishing the common sounds that you will be faced with at your building sites, and taking the proper steps will diminish sound transfer at that site.

Steve
GrandCounty SIPs.com

Steve;

I think the noise issue is blown out of proportion by people that were under the impression that SIPs would make a dead silent building envelope. ........ I have heard those claims made.
I don't believe sound transmision in any sips house is worse than a frame house, I just believe that if people perceive that they would be extremely quiet, they are then hyper sensitive to any noise they hear. Like the guy who built next to the interstate highway.
During hurricane Charlie, we would never know there was a storm going on if we could not see the trees bending over.
I do like your common sense assessment ,I too think my house is the quietest house I ever lived in, not sound proof, but very quiet, with the doors and windows closed.

Picture depicts a stand by generator just 16" from a SIP wall, when generator goes thru weekly run cycle it it very loud on the exterior, but in the master bedroom that is only 8ft. away on the interior side the generator cannot be heard.

I have not looked into the sound resistance of steel SIPs so I cannot comment on the sound resistance of steel SIPs.  Apparently, it is a known fact by SIP manufacturers, suppliers and installers of OSB/EPS SIPs that OSB/EPS SIPs have been documented by scientific tests to have low resistance to sound transmission.  Below are two links to scientifically backed documentation on the sound resistance of OSB/EPS SIPs from two different manufacturer's websites that show the actual sound resistance/STC (Sound Transmission Class) ratings OSB/EPS SIPs.  Both of these SIP manufacturers are well known in the industry:

http://www.pbssips.com/Tech%20Bulletins/Tech%20Bull%2025a%20sound%20trasmission.pdf

 

http://www.rcontrol.com/downloads/brochure/RControl%20SIP%20Testing%20Summary%20Chart.pdf

One of the SIP manufacturers indicates that their SIP has an STC rating of STC 28 when finished with ½” drywall.  The other SIP manufacturer indicates that their SIP has an STC rating of STC 29 when finished with ½” drywall.  The manufacturers’ tests are backed by ASTM standard E90.  This ASTM test method covers the laboratory measurement of airborne sound transmission loss of building partitions such as walls of all kinds, operable partitions, floor-ceiling assemblies, doors, windows, roofs, panels, and other space-dividing elements.   

 

After considering the information above, note that the APA and other sources describe the sound resistance of STC 30 as “Loud speech can be understood fairly well.”  See APA Noise-Rated Systems Design/Construction Guide, form number W46ON at www.apawood.org for more information on STC ratings and ASTM E90.  There is more information on this subject in my June 5 post.  Here are descriptions of the sound qualities different STC ratings as described in the APA document I referenced above:  

 

STC 25            Normal speech can be understood quite clearly.

STC 30            Loud speech can be understood fairly well.

STC 35            Loud speech audible but not intelligible.

STC 42            Loud speech audible as a murmur.

STC 45            Must strain to hear loud speech.

STC 48            Some loud speech barely audible.

STC 50            Loud speech not audible.

 

“Normal speech can be understood quite clearly” and “Loud speech can be understood fairly well” perfectly describes my experience with exterior SIP walls without added soundproofing measures.  You can only imagine the potential for lack of privacy, noise from a highway, barking dogs, etc. if you have not experienced it for yourself.

Choward;

an 1-1/2" hi-hat furred space solves the problem

It would be good if the SIP industry would inform people of the "problem" before people make the decision to build with SIPs.  Obviously, the problem is not easily solved in a SIP home that has already been completed!  

I think that SIP manufacturers, suppliers and builders should publicly provide a clear and direct comparison between the sound resistance of traditionally framed construction and the sound resistance of SIPs (including actual STC ratings), an explanation of the meaning of an STC rating, an explanation of the significance of a low STC rating and descriptions of the measures that need to be taken during construction to compensate for the lower sound resisitance of SIPs.

Posted By choward on 29 Jun 2010 12:28 AM
It would be good if the SIP industry would inform people of the "problem" before people make the decision to build with SIPs.  Obviously, the problem is not easily solved in a SIP home that has already been completed!  

I think that SIP manufacturers, suppliers and builders should publicly provide a clear and direct comparison between the sound resistance of traditionally framed construction and the sound resistance of SIPs (including actual STC ratings), an explanation of the meaning of an STC rating, an explanation of the significance of a low STC rating and descriptions of the measures that need to be taken during construction to compensate for the lower sound resisitance of SIPs.

what is the STC rating of traditionally framed construction?

R-Control has the only published STC ratings for SIPs that I have seen (STC 29 with 1/2" drywall and 39 with resiliant channel and 1/2" drywall).  http://www.achfoam.com/ACH/media/do..._Chart.pdf

Based on the STC ratings I see at http://www.toolbase.org/PDF/CaseStu...atings.pdf  A SIP wall structure appears to be less sound resistant than a standard frame wall.  The STC rating of 29 is about the same as a single sheet of drywall by itself (1/2" drywall STC 28).

It would seem a standard SIP structure would be louder than a standard frame structure and much louder than a block or ICF structure.  I would assume the reason many SIP owners comment on their house being quieter is because the SIP structure is tighter than standard frame construction.  Meaning there would be less small openings where noise could bypass the wall structure.

I would be interesting to get an STC rating for steel SIPS with the high hat furring.  Since high-hat wouldn't provide as much decoupling as resiliant channel I would expect it to improve the STC rating by less than 10 points.  It appears increasing the drywall thickness may provide the most bang for the buck in making a quieter structure.  It would be helpful to have a listing of STC ratings for SIPS showing any differences for different drywall thicknesses & layering, high-ht versus resiliant channel, SIP thickness, skin type (wood versus, steel), and foam type (polyiso vs. EPS).  Unfortunately this is one area where SIPs don't outshine ICF so there is little motivation for SIP suppliers to have this information.

My stick-built house using 2x6 studs with 4 inches of foam added outside is very quiet. The great-room has a barrel roof (29X45 feet with a radius of 19 feet or so for the arches) , consisting of metal arch trusses on 60 inch centers with 2x6 T&G spruce as the ceiling, with 4 inches of polyisocynate foam covered with goodyear rubber roofing.

Twice a day, when it warms up and when it cools off, it makes a popping and groaning sound for 3 or 4 seconds. Very shocking the first time you hear it. But the roof would hold a JD-450 dozer easy.

Outdoor sounds come in through the windows, not the walls or roof. I think that's true of SIP and ICF buildings too. My shop is 24x48 ICF, really quiet inside.

I live in a 2nd floor condo. A contractor replaced the roof on the building at the end of the summer (new plywood and everything). When it gets very windy (wind gusts over 20-30mph), the skylight in the livingroom (I only have one skylight) makes very load moaning/groaning noises. It actually sounds like a large animal. In the master bedroom, it's almost as if there's no roof, I can hear the wind gusting through and making all sorts of creaking/squeaking and other noises.




_____________
roofing contractors

Posted By Brearley on 09 Jul 2010 07:47 AM
I live in a 2nd floor condo. A contractor replaced the roof on the building at the end of the summer (new plywood and everything). When it gets very windy (wind gusts over 20-30mph), the skylight in the livingroom (I only have one skylight) makes very load moaning/groaning noises. It actually sounds like a large animal. In the master bedroom, it's almost as if there's no roof, I can hear the wind gusting through and making all sorts of creaking/squeaking and other noises.




_____________
roofing contractors

you have a bad seal at the skylight/curb when the wind blows hard enough it is the same as blowing across the top of an empty soda bottle

Okay . . . maybe I need to help clear up any misunderstandings or confusion on the SIP house exterior noise thing:
My comment about being able to hear birds WALK on the roof - totally true.
HOWEVER - we DO live in an extremely quiet house. This SIP house is quiet way beyond our old stick-built house. But I'm not able to tell you why we hear one exterior sound over another.
If I am in the house with all windows closed, I can't hear a car drive up our gravel driveway. I also don't even hear our garage door go up - or even hear my husband walking in the garage toward the door to enter the house. It always surprises me if I haven't SEEN his car drive up the driveway, and he walks in the door! And I have excellent hearing.
On the other hand - I can hear tractors and a passing train on some tracks about a mile away - across open fields. But I'm sure I could hear these things much better if I were in a stick-built house.
As for someone talking on the other side of a SIP wall - me standing inside - them standing outside - can't do it - unless they speak VERY loudly. It seems to be the sounds that happen right against the SIP panel that transfer so well into the interior.
We've gotten used to how loud rain is on the roof. Fluttering shingles on a super windy day is something that took us a while to figure out. We didn't know what the sound was at first. But I'm guessing it happens on all houses - it's just that with a stick built house that has attic space between the roof and the top ceiling, that buffered space doesn't allow the noise to convey to the interior nearly as well.
Thanks for all the responses everyone. I'm feeling a bit more at ease that my house isn't going to fall down around me

The unfortunate situation is that SIP panels are much less sound isolating than a standard wall. We've tested them, and reviewed test data from others. They are a lightweight panel with no air cavity. As such, they transmit sound readily (birds walking).

The only solution is what was referenced earlier. Decouple from the panel, insulate the new air cavity and add drywall. This significantly increases the wall depth, however.

This is a real shame, since the SIP concept is spectacular from a thermal and construction perspective.

Ted;

I have used all types of SIPs,  the panels we have been using the last 12 years do not come with a wire chase, instead we fur out the inside to create a wire chase, at the same time it creates the "dead" 1-1/2 air space and drastically  deadens sound, 6" walls are even much greater than 4" , but even the 4" are quieter than conventional homes

Chris, I'm sure they work fine for you. Part of the issue is that the SIP is filled and essentially behaves as a single mass. When we introduce a small air cavity next to a solid mass, we improve things in the upper frequencies (just as you describe) however there is also a loss in performance in the lower frequencies. See the data and graphics here: http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/library/articles/triple_leaf_effect/

An improvement to what you do would be to resiliently decouple the inner drywall from the SIP, rather than apply rigid non-decoupled furring. This would lower the resonance point of the assembly, giving you a bit more control over the low frequencies.

thanks for providing the useful information

Have these SIP issues been addressed/resolved and if so, what was the solution?:

** SIP roofs creating a very loud popping sound throughout the day (more prevelant in climates with large temperature swings in 24 hours)
** SIP walls transmitting a lot of sound due to the SIP wall being one structural element and not a very good acoustical break

I have read comments from some SIP home owners who swore they would never live in a SIP home again due to the above issues, it was that bad.

yes furring and de-coupling

Posted By cmkavala on 19 Dec 2011 07:56 PM
yes furring and de-coupling

Did they find out WHAT was causing the loud popping?

Is this applicable to steel SIPs or OSB SIPs?

Any pics or diagrams of the furring and de-coupling?

Just as a point of clarification, installing furring channels isn't true decoupling. Also, while the installation of furring may increase STC (a mid- high frequency measurement) it will make the low frequency isolation worse. Such is Mass Law.

The SIPs have this acoustic weakness because they behave as a single mass leaf. The missing functional air cavity defines this. A standard stick bult wall has an outer layer of mass, a middle layer of insulated air, and an inner layer of mass (drywall). This classic Mass-Air-Mass system will yield greater isolation, especially if decoupled.

I built my SIPs in 2007. After interior walls for a bath were added, and the walls attached to the vaulted SIPs ceiling, there was horrific noise with temperature fluctuation. The bath was the ONLY room on that floor - the only interior walls on that floor. The plumber just happened to know exactly what the problem was - the nails attaching the walls to the ceiling were rubbing up and down with heat and cold expansion and contraction. The contractor A) cut all the nails attaching the walls to the ceiling and B) used insulating foam as a kind of glue to attach the walls to the ceiling. The house is now SILENT. When the wind blows at gale force outside, I hardly hear it. The house is very quiet.

The vaulted SIP ceiling is your roof also? If so, I don't know that foam is going to do the trick. That is I don't think you should depend on the foam to hold your roof down. I probably missed something. Anyway, I have a friend that has a SIP roof with ICF walls and he said he attached the roof with long screws metal to metal. Metal anchors in concrete. He was careful to put some type of soft washer on screws to absorb sound should the roof move a bit and it worked great. Regards.

What exactly is 'popping' in a SIP roof?

The area I am in can see 30-40 degree temperature swings in less than 24 hours.

From BuildingScience.com, they claim one get achieve a R-50 or higher just utilizing modern insulation within a standard attic.

use neo-washers

After some deeper research, I talked with a couple of soundproofing engineers, here is what they concluded:

The SIP must have an air gap between the actual SIP and the interior finish in order to lower the sound levels. At a minimum, a 2" furring channel, then 2" of fiberglass for sound absorption within the cavity, and finally 5/8" drywall. Ideally a wider air space is better, preferably 3"+, the greater the air space between the SIP and the drywall, the better the noise cancellation.

The above formula should reduce or eliminate the "popping" and sound transfer associated with SIPs. Ironically, it is the strength of a SIPs solid one piece construction that causes the sound issues. It's strength causes its weakness when it comes to sound transfer.

I really don't understand your noise problem. I have 10" roof panels and a steel roof. The ceiling of the room below is the bottom of the panel. Yes, before I put up drywall, rain made noise on the metal roof, but once the drywall was on it seemed to absorb the noise of rain pretty well. I haven't had any groaning or popping noises. (At least, not since the contractor severed the nails as previously reported.) My neighbors routinely marvel at how quiet my house is. So I'm very confused about the problem you describe of "popping." Maybe my roofer put furring channels on my roof, or something similar that elevated the roof from the panels slightly. I'll check on that.

Posted By kavade on 04 Mar 2012 04:43 PM
I really don't understand your noise problem. I have 10" roof panels and a steel roof. The ceiling of the room below is the bottom of the panel. Yes, before I put up drywall, rain made noise on the metal roof, but once the drywall was on it seemed to absorb the noise of rain pretty well. I haven't had any groaning or popping noises. (At least, not since the contractor severed the nails as previously reported.) My neighbors routinely marvel at how quiet my house is. So I'm very confused about the problem you describe of "popping." Maybe my roofer put furring channels on my roof, or something similar that elevated the roof from the panels slightly. I'll check on that.

This "noise" issue in steel roof SIPs is a very common problem, just do a Google search and you will find hundreds of hits on it. A SIP is a one-piece unit which transmits noise. There were studies done on this and it was verified that a steel SIP will transmit more noise than a wood framed roof or wall. They (Steel SIP) had the highest sound transmission properties.

The popping is more prevalent when you have vast diurnal temperature swings. Places that see 60F outdoor daytime temps and then 15 hours later, the outdoor temps will be 30F. This fast temperature swing will cause the popping noises due to thermal expansions of different materials.

If one furred out the ceiling, it will help a lot. An air space of 3"+ between the steel SIP and then 5/8" ceiling drywall, will help a lot and eliminate the noise.

Do you have a STEEL SIP roof or OSB SIP roof?

LBEAR; the google search did not reveal any such information, please post a specific link(s), as we have supplied/installed literally hundreds of SIPs buildings , some OSB, but mostly steel and we have not received any call backs for noise issues?

Posted By cmkavala on 05 Mar 2012 07:10 AM
LBEAR; the google search did not reveal any such information, please post a specific link(s), as we have supplied/installed literally hundreds of SIPs buildings , some OSB, but mostly steel and we have not received any call backs for noise issues?

STEEL SIP ROOF NOISE

I really like STEEL SIPs and will most likely utilize them for my home but the issue is real for those climates that experience 30+ degree temperature swings in less than 24 hours. So for a climate that has 5-10 degree swings in 24 hours they will most likely not experience any noise issues.

"On occasion, building owners have reported distinct short burst of sound coming from their structures which include SIPs as a component. This sound has been described as a popping sound. This popping sound has been most often reported in the spring or fall when temperature changes occur rapidly from sunrise to early morning or from evening through sunset. These sounds have also been reported with intermittent changes in sun and cloud cover during peak daylight exposure.

The source of the noise is likely the restraint of construction materials when the materials are undergoing expansion or contraction associated with changes in temperature. The source of the restraint is likely friction between structural components. The sound that is heard is likely the release of the restraint within the building envelope when the expansion (or contraction) overcomes the frictional forces that are resisting the movement. Reports from the SIP industry suggest that the noise will diminish over time. Most importantly, we are aware of no projects reporting this type of noise to be linked with a structural deficiency. We hope you find this information useful.
Respectively submitted,
Todd Bergstrom, Ph.D.
VP Technology"

Posted By Lbear on 05 Mar 2012 02:21 PM

Posted By cmkavala on 05 Mar 2012 07:10 AM
LBEAR; the google search did not reveal any such information, please post a specific link(s), as we have supplied/installed literally hundreds of SIPs buildings , some OSB, but mostly steel and we have not received any call backs for noise issues?

STEEL SIP ROOF NOISE

I really like STEEL SIPs and will most likely utilize them for my home but the issue is real for those climates that experience 30+ degree temperature swings in less than 24 hours. So for a climate that has 5-10 degree swings in 24 hours they will most likely not experience any noise issues.

"On occasion, building owners have reported distinct short burst of sound coming from their structures which include SIPs as a component. This sound has been described as a popping sound. This popping sound has been most often reported in the spring or fall when temperature changes occur rapidly from sunrise to early morning or from evening through sunset. These sounds have also been reported with intermittent changes in sun and cloud cover during peak daylight exposure.

The source of the noise is likely the restraint of construction materials when the materials are undergoing expansion or contraction associated with changes in temperature. The source of the restraint is likely friction between structural components. The sound that is heard is likely the release of the restraint within the building envelope when the expansion (or contraction) overcomes the frictional forces that are resisting the movement. Reports from the SIP industry suggest that the noise will diminish over time. Most importantly, we are aware of no projects reporting this type of noise to be linked with a structural deficiency. We hope you find this information useful.
Respectively submitted,
Todd Bergstrom, Ph.D.
VP Technology"

Lbear;
OK, I read the link, that mentions OSB SIPs (popping) and steel roofing , But no mention of Steel SIPs ????

What is the furthest a steel SIP roof can overhang a wall, in this case it is for shade from the summer sun on the south end of the home? Is it 18" or 24"?

They can overhang much further than that. It depends on wind loads (uplift) and your fastener details. I have an 8' overhang for sun shading (& to cover a balcony) on my south side. It is now supported by a box beam/columns one foot from the edge but was left unsupported (at 8 feet) for a couple of weeks. My fastener connections were not sufficient to meet code if I left that large of an overhang (but I could have added enough additional screws/bolts that it would have). I however would have been concerned about long term creep/sag in the panel.

Posted By Lbear on 06 Mar 2012 03:02 PM
What is the furthest a steel SIP roof can overhang a wall, in this case it is for shade from the summer sun on the south end of the home? Is it 18" or 24"?

Eave overhangs 48" rake overhangs 23"

Posted By cmkavala on 06 Mar 2012 05:46 PM

Posted By Lbear on 06 Mar 2012 03:02 PM
What is the furthest a steel SIP roof can overhang a wall, in this case it is for shade from the summer sun on the south end of the home? Is it 18" or 24"?

Eave overhangs 48" rake overhangs 23"

What is the limiting factor in a SIP for longer overhangs?

Okey-dokey. Thanks for the clarification. My SIPs are OSB, not steel.

Posted By kavade on 07 Mar 2012 06:11 AM
Okey-dokey. Thanks for the clarification. My SIPs are OSB, not steel.

I was referring to a steel SIP roof with a standing seam metal roof on top of the steel SIP. This is where the noise issue comes into play. OSB SIP roofs are not as problematic in regards to noise because of the wood.

Posted By Lbear on 07 Mar 2012 06:14 AM

Posted By kavade on 07 Mar 2012 06:11 AM
Okey-dokey. Thanks for the clarification. My SIPs are OSB, not steel.

I was referring to a steel SIP roof with a standing seam metal roof on top of the steel SIP. This is where the noise issue comes into play. OSB SIP roofs are not as problematic in regards to noise because of the wood.

LBEAR; Since metal SIPs have an air space , then drywall, they are less problematic than OSB

Posted By Lbear on 06 Mar 2012 07:19 PM

Posted By cmkavala on 06 Mar 2012 05:46 PM

Posted By Lbear on 06 Mar 2012 03:02 PM
What is the furthest a steel SIP roof can overhang a wall, in this case it is for shade from the summer sun on the south end of the home? Is it 18" or 24"?

Eave overhangs 48" rake overhangs 23"

What is the limiting factor in a SIP for longer overhangs?

LBEAR;
live & dead loads

We recently purchased a home with a slight pitched roof composite shingles in Palm Springs area. We never heard any noises when we visited the home and purchased during September. Once we moved in October we started hearing loud popping noises in the early morning and sunset. It looks like there is insufficient insulation which I plan to add along with Title 24 White roof coating. Any other suggestions to eliminate or reduce these popping noise? Thank you ! Cory