DesuperHeaters and Water Heaters
Last Post 07 Nov 2008 10:33 PM by joe.ami. 68 Replies.
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gregjUser is Offline
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27 Oct 2008 11:44 AM
Posted By ajho on 10/25/2008 12:14 PM
Actually, I'm also wondering what the value would be in using a solar panel plumbed directly into the vertical ground loop to charge the ground with heat energy year-round. 


If this worked, and I'm not convinced of it, you would need a separate loop for summer cooling. You certainly wouldn't want to be heating up the loop all summer that you are relying on for cooling.


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27 Oct 2008 12:15 PM

Posted By ajho on 10/25/2008 12:14 PM
Actually, I'm also wondering what the value would be in using a solar panel plumbed directly into the vertical ground loop to charge the ground with heat energy year-round. 




If I were going to do something like this,  I would run the solar heated water right into the heat pump as opposed to the ground where most would be lost.   If you can raise the EWT from 50° to 90°  (90  is max)  the COP goes from 4 to 5.


Dewayne Dean

<br>www.PalaceGeothermal.com<br>Why settle for 90% when you can have 400%<br>We heat and cool with dirt!<br>visit- http://welserver.com/WEL0114/- to see my system
ajhoUser is Offline
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27 Oct 2008 02:11 PM
Hi Greg and Dewayne,

In Vancouver, we typically have fewer than 5 days in a year where cooling is needed, so the heat pump is essentially shut down from May to October. I like the idea of running the solar hot water directly into the inflow line, but the biggest problem with that idea is that the solar is most available May to October. I can use much of it directly for solar hot water, but can't really use it in the heat pump line at that time of year - hence my thought about injecting it into the ground to save for the winter.


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29 Oct 2008 05:35 PM
Summary of questions:
- Is a desuperheater a worthwhile investment in Vancouver, BC (no need for summer cooling)?
- Is there value in using solar panels to recharge the ground loop in summer?
- Are there bacterial growth concerns when using a DSH with a preheat tank?
- Does anyone know of an auxiliary heat pump that can supply DHW year-round using the main system's ground loop?
==============================================================

Until about 2 weeks ago I was a very strong proponent of the DSH. Now, I am not so sure. Heat from the standard DSH is not "free." The water has to be pumped from the tank through the DSH and back. This consumes energy. There is a DSH that provides truly free heat but requires cutting your freon line (visit products section under www.gegsolutions.com). I had one at my previous house and it worked fine on my 4 ton R-22 system here in Florida. You would need to do an ROI calculation to determine if the DSH is valuable or not. My guess is yes for you since you will be running the heater a good bit of the time.

If the DSH is properly installed, there is no concern about bacteria. Totally safe.

Have not seen a groundsource heatpump waterheater. There are some air source heat pumps that probably could be converted to do this but I have not seen any.

==================================Heat transfer in the ground=======================
You are unlikely to successfully store heat in the gound via a small home solar unit. The University of Tuscaloosa "Bama mall" has (had?) a GSHP that pumped groundwater from side A to side B in the summer and was supposed to reverse in the winter. I don't know how successful this was - probably not real successful as heat and groundwater both flow and I never saw any follow up stories about how great it worked.

Will heat remain in an area? Yes - to an extent. We heated about 2 acres (50' deep) to over 150F during an innovative remediation project (injected steam in the the ground while augering to vaporize contamination). Two years later some areas were still above 100F (groundwater temp is generally about 77-78F here).

Heat, however, does "migrate" or flow in the ground. Therefore you are not going to "store" it unless you line the earth somehow. And in truth, the ground itself is not a great heat storage system. The heat capacity of soil is not real high. If you want to explore this in detail suggest you post in new thread as this is fairly much off topic of this thread.

Good questions.
Alex




engineerUser is Offline
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29 Oct 2008 06:42 PM
- Does anyone know of an auxiliary heat pump that can supply DHW year-round using the main system's ground loop?

Yes - Waterfurnace EW020 is a water to water unit designed for domestic hot water (double walled and vented heat exchanger.

http://secure.waterfurnace.com/docs/FB507406666/manuals/eseries/sp1469.pdf


Curt Kinder <br><br>

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
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30 Oct 2008 11:20 AM
An EarthLinked SW model is setup to beautifully handle heating the domestic water AND the house, year round.


Clark Timothy ([email protected])<br>Geothermal Heat Pumps: Heating and Cooling that's Dirt Cheap!<br>www.pinksgeothermal.com
engineerUser is Offline
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30 Oct 2008 04:41 PM
Clark - you are saying the Earthlinked SW will run on a call for hot water only and devote its full output to heating water?

That would be a most excellent feature.


Curt Kinder <br><br>

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
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30 Oct 2008 07:22 PM
Absolutely.

That's one great advantage we have.


Clark Timothy ([email protected])<br>Geothermal Heat Pumps: Heating and Cooling that's Dirt Cheap!<br>www.pinksgeothermal.com
joe.amiUser is Offline
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07 Nov 2008 10:33 PM
Bear in mind, btu's available from the ground are still finite. If you take to many btu's for DHW, you'll hit more electric strip to heat your home in the cold month's (heating dominated climates) DX or water source. Cooling dominated climates on the other hand have a serious advantage in making DMH.
J


Joe Hardin
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