Thanks Dewayne. I agree. It could be the 3.5 that Ken originally suggested though. I'm curious how the contract reads. I think a mechanic on site would be our best bet for sorting things out.
Joe

On the furnace its listed as 42,800 btu/hr nominal cooling capacity at 59 deg ewt and 37,500 btu/hr nominal heating capacity at 50 deg ewt.  Currently my ewt is around 32 degrees.  Again, this is also a hot water on demand system!  The system is currently producing 79 degrees in 1st stage and about 85 in 2nd stage.

In my actually quote it lists the model # of the furnace which does match what I have but there is also a statmement below that to upgrade to a 5 ton unit it would be 'x' dollars more.  It never actually states 4 ton unit altough a 4 or 5 ton unit is all that was discussed.  I know logic would lead you to think that its a 4 ton unit because of the 5 ton disclaimer but I don't know how well that would hold up in litigation. 

I have already contacted one contractor who has done several systems with people that I personally know who have been very satisfied.  I explained the situation and didn't mention who my contractor was.  What credentials should I verify he has to make sure any of his findings would actually be credible if it got to litigation?

Thanks,

ken

It does sound like a 3.5 ton.
As far as credentials of the other guy, if your friends are satisfied that sounds good. The newest guy in the biz in your town could be the best, if his customers like him, you probably will too.
j

Does the btu heating rating at 50deg ewt sound normal?  This sounds like it really overvalues the system because the ewt will rarely be at 50.  Also on the cooling side 59 deg ewt sounds to low.  I guess my question is with the brands you deal in are there btu values rated with similar ewt temps?

Ken

Most manufacturers rate the HC at 30° EWT and CC at 90° EWT

I thought they all used the standard ARI 320 conditions ranging from a low of 32 in 2nd stage closed loop heating up to 86 for closed loop 2nd stage cooling, with other temps applying to other conditions (41, 59, 68, 77,) of loop types and stage.

Disclaimer: If wife weren't right now pushing me to move a bookcase I'd look these up instead of guessing off the top of my head...

Ken,
How's it going?

Joe,

I haven't gotten much accomplished this week except exchange a few emails with the contractor over the sizing issue.  Work has been crazy the last two weeks and not allowing much time to address this issue. 

My heat pump is also starting to not produce heat in 1st stage again.  It seems to occur the most after the hot water on demand runs its cycle.  They replaced the reversing valve in the spring it appears to be doing the same thing again.  So, I feel like I'm treading on a fine line because this is all warranty work and I don't know of any other contractors locally that are qualified on this manufactures brand.   The manufacturer has never returned any of my calls so I don't have a list of other contractors to get a second opinion.  I need him to get this thing fixed even though I believe its not capable of during the job.

In the summer,  It really struggled just to maintain 76, and this was with outside temps in low 80's.  What temps should I have been able to achieve fairly easily if it was properly sized?

I actually did contact my home builder who provided me with a couple of there contractors that they always use.  I thought this would be a good route because my home is a spec house and if there is a big difference in unit sizes they are putting in, this will help my argument. 

I'm going to see if I can find any info on the state licensing board after this.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks,

Ken

Your system should be able to maintain a reasonable indoor temperature (typically 75-77 summer, 68-72 winter) on a 'design day' for your area. A typical 'design day' is one so severe that 97.5% of days are milder. As a practical matter a properly designed system may not quite make setpoint (a degree or two high) for a few hours during the afternoon on the several very hottest summer days in your area, and will make some use of auxiliary resistance strip heat during winter cold snaps.

A system unable to hold 76 with outdoor temps in low 80s is underperforming for cooling in most places south of the arctic circle.

Ken,
I want you to understand that tight or wrong sized for heating doesn't mean wrong sized for cooling.
Your cooling load is just over 2 tons.
I still suggest you employ a local contractor to verify load and good installation. Local practice/experience trumps cyber contractors.
If 2nd local opinion agrees that design is not proper, notify contractor and manufacturer that your next steps are BBB, State license board and attorney.
Good luck,
Joe

Ken,
PM me your E-mail address.
J

Joe,

I am going to call the local contractor that a few of my friends have used and are very happy with tomorrow.  I spoke to him about a month ago and hopefully he will be willing to come out and take a look at the system.  Should I basically give him the floor plans and have him re-do all the calculations plus inspect the system?  Should I have a heat loss analysis done on the home also?

Is there a way to get my email to you without posting it?

Thanks again,

Ken

Click on my name to the side and follow prompts for private message.
J

Update...
H/O shared prints with me for a load calc and we determined 4 ton system to be reasonable. We also determined that the installed system is HD's definition of a 4 ton.
Contractor indicates that HD has been caving in and that they have now been purchased by the Aprilaire folks (research products), that's probably good news.
Contractor sounds like one of the type we've all met that doesn't prefer to be questioned and is likely a better mechanic than party favor. I mean that as an at-a-glance endorsement of his logic if not his charm.
We await his trip to the home and evaluation (+ data) of the equipment performance.
Contractor maintains that performance is close but op cost is probably high and suspects a condition in the home. I appreciated his agreement that something is not quite right and am hopeful he will complete an honest assessment for our friend here.
Meanwhile, during our communication I also discovered that a woodburning fireplace had been in use which I suspect could easily have added 10+% to the load, and as it was in a zone that was unheated during experiments in other zones, it may have actually introduced outside air to zones that still had return air draw while unheated.
Will keep you posted.
Joe

Good catch on the fireplace. Even if not in use its open damper wreaks havoc in cold weather.

Would a gas fireplace have the same effects?

depends on the gas fireplace
if it sits in a masonary stack then yes
inserts help allot especially ones that have there own fresh air intake
nothing beats a franklin stove for open wood used allot

Does anybody have any studies of how much heat is lost in a regular fireplace (with damper and glass doors) vs. an insert? We are trying to determine if it's worth the $4,000 price tag to install an insert into our old fireplace. (I know it's off the geo topic, but since it was brought up I thought I would ask).

Not that much if the damper is kept closed while not in use

In use with the glass doors open, it's probably a net loss.

Don't take fire place advise from a Florida man
(joking )
I would check the difference on a man j program between medium tight and tight fireplace
Does that price include a full liner?
The plus is 2 sided how much heat you get from the fireplace when you use it
and how infiltration you get from it when you dont . I can see it being very tough to put a real number on
basically how much air is getting in your house through the chimney , and that cost
and how much more heat would you get when you do , and that cost
So I would close with , if you use it allot and you notice drafts around it when you are not using it
its probably worth it .