Magoo nation
Last Post 23 Apr 2009 12:45 PM by 600rmk. 27 Replies.
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joe.amiUser is Offline
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16 Apr 2009 05:23 PM
If by "free-agent" you mean that I'm idepentantly wealthy you are mistaken. The comparison is flawed as the free agency you propose means certain and immediate bankruptcy (vs eventual and probable). But really it appears that we agree by on many levels (though I'm enjoying the lively discussion).
Here is how I propose the government help (at all levels).
First prosecute bank fraud- If we were to revisit loan applications for many of the defaulted borrowers, I'll wager that you will find lot's of number fudging. Prosecute lenders and borrowers with an eye towards restitution and liquadate assets to recover the loss.
Second prosecute theft- for all the yahoo's that "gave" their house back to the bank but stole portions of the loan security (i.e. furnace, airconditioner, fixtures, sheds, appliances.......). Prosecute with an eye towards restitution and liquidate assets.
Third prosecute gross negligence- homeowners who left homes and disconnected power or gas with out provision to avoid damage from freezing or flooding- or - so called winterization persons who supposedly prepare homes for winter without heat that are found with water damage from burst plumbing the following spring. Restitution from insured persons or liquidated assets.
Require banks to safegaurd their assets with licensed and insured winterization companies and minimal utility service to avoid flood damage in units that require sump pumps. It kills me that banks in (MI) saved hundreds in utility costs but lost tens of thousands in individual home values (our new state flower might be a mold spore).
Make sure everyone who did anything other than return the house to the lender in the best possible condition is charged for repairs and issued a 1099 for unrecovered funds, then have IRS aggressively persue taxes owed on the 1099 income (I know some 1099's are issued currently, I'm suggesting that everyone should get one that recieved an equity line for anything other than home improvement on a home returned to the bank in good condition).
Employ local building departments and to help monitor empty properties (it's not like there is any new construction to inspect). They would report vandalism quickly improving our chances of catching perps and recovering loss (through restitution). Create groups of volunteers to monitor vacant homes (like their property values depend on it).
Oh and investigate $4.00 gallon gas and prosecute any entity that is unable to demonstrate a direct proportion of increased cost/increased price.
This might only save/recover billions, but you know what they say....a billion here, a billion there......
So when I said I didn't have any answers, I might have had a couple of suggestions :)
PS good people lost their homes for good reasons. There are provisions in place to protect them from the prosecutions I suggested above.
J
Joe Hardin
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zircoteUser is Offline
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16 Apr 2009 08:26 PM
Go Joe.
May I suggest going after the rating company's that so generously applied all of those AAA labels to the now famous 'toxic assets'.
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16 Apr 2009 09:25 PM
Posted By zircote on 04/16/2009 8:26 PM
Go Joe.
May I suggest going after the rating company's that so generously applied all of those AAA labels to the now famous 'toxic assets'.[/quote]
I'll have to complete agree with this point. If the rating companies did there job, and the crap rated AAA was all properly rated to the junk they really where, things would never have gotten so bad. Pension funds, insurance companies and other low risk funds would have never touched the stuff, only most daring of investors would have brought these risky investments. The buyers would have quickly dried up, which in turn would have forced the banks to have stronger underwriting standards for loans in order to get the fund ratings up, in order to sell them to the large investment houses. You have to remember, traditionally mortgage securities were always seen as low risk investments, that paid fair returns. The money lend was secured by assets (real estate) and the risk was spread across a large number of loans to reduce the damage of losses from any defaults.

joe.amiUser is Offline
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16 Apr 2009 10:09 PM
I do not hold banks harmless in this, but we have already decidided that it was necessary to bail them out.
Rating companies yeah, maybe, ok.
But the point remains the same that there are people who; have profited, who have assets and should have to pay.
Again the flip side; there are victims who have already paid and culprits who pay the mortgage anyway. That's where the line gets fuzzy doesn't it?
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort!
retiredengUser is Offline
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17 Apr 2009 05:55 AM
"The Activity on the site has dropped off a cliff"

I might add that this political food fight crap is not helping, it is certainly discouraging me from any more visits or posts.

An old fovorite quote:
"In any argument, the heat of the argument is inversly proportional to the amount of knowledge present."
gregjUser is Offline
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23 Apr 2009 11:00 AM
Posted By joe.ami on 04/16/2009 5:23 PM
Oh and investigate $4.00 gallon gas and prosecute any entity that is unable to demonstrate a direct proportion of increased cost/increased price.

Joe, I'm surprised that you want the government to establish suitable prices for goods. (Especially when high fuel costs are actually good for your business.) Do you also want the government to set profit levels for the installation of HVAC systems? If everyone was pounding on your door wanting a geo system installed and you couldn't keep up with demand wouldn't you need to raise your prices so that you could increase your capability to satisfy all these customers? Or would the HVAC industry just tell all those unsatisfied cutomers that they can't provide them with energy saving geo systems because it would be wrong to raise prices. Do you really think you can fight the law of supply and demand? Seems like having government set markup is a slippery slope.
joe.amiUser is Offline
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23 Apr 2009 11:23 AM

I might add that this political food fight crap is not helping, it is certainly discouraging me from any more visits or posts.



Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort!
600rmkUser is Offline
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23 Apr 2009 12:45 PM
I tend to stay away from these types of discussions because I am not as well versed in the area of politics as most. Quite honestly, I couldn't have cared less because I was content with the way my life was going. I was naive about the political world. The downturn in our economy has made me stand up and take more notice. I watched as the political parties campaigned for their cause and proposals to fix this economy. I don't really have any party lines that I follow (since I wasn't too inlvoved in the political world) but I watched a local debate one night on TV where 3 parties were involved. 2 of the 3 continued their bantor back and forth about how this one did that and that one did this...... so on and so forth. It seemed like typical politics from my perspective. The third gentleman made some remarks that pretty much made a lot of sense to me. His comments boiled down to the fact that neither of the other campaigns really wanted to tackle the "real" issues. We had a national debt that was exponentially getting out of hand, our lending system is falling to its knees and people are losing (more like had lost) confidence in our economy. That wasn't any stunning revelation or anything but what he said next was very interesting. I think it kind of goes back to what Joe was talking about. He basically said that there is a reason why we're in this mess today, all of the people that are in office today, stood by and let this happen. The people that we elect to run this country failed us. Many of these people should be held responsible for their action or lack thereof. He said some should even be brought up on criminal charges. The sad reality is that he was right. Too many people get caught up in the political spotlight and rather than do the right thing, they side with whoever gives them the most campaign money. I don't have any conspiracy theories or that all government figures are crooks but it makes me wonder how our government sat by and let these types of things happen. Someone has to take responsibility/accountibility.
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