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Problems with Tranquility 27
Last Post 03 Jan 2010 10:35 AM by joe.ami. 31 Replies. |
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Taffy
New Member
Posts:24
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| 24 Dec 2009 03:36 PM |
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geodean - not sure how to start my own thread? |
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geome
Advanced Member
Posts:987
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| 24 Dec 2009 04:02 PM |
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When you are logged in, go to the Geothermal Heat Pumps Page, click on "Add New Topic" on the left side of the page near the top (immediately below the "Email me when someone replies to this thread." check box.)
Good luck!
P.S. You should put a brief description of your problem as the subject.
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| Homeowner with WF Envision NDV038 (packaged) & NDZ026 (split), one 3000' 4 pipe closed horizontal ground loop, Prestige thermostats, desuperheaters, 85 gal. Marathon. |
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Wayne Snyder
New Member
Posts:6
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| 25 Dec 2009 04:40 PM |
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Taffy, I think it would be a good idea to keep this thread going. It IS the same issue, same manufacturer, further harrowing problems, good exposure for hurried and greedy installers and the uncaring manufacturer. In that I mean, if a company cared about it's good name and product, it would respond immediately and overwhelmingly before we, as faithful consumers, had to reluctantly plead for help on forums such as this (where the masquerading company reps finally and distantly are forced to address these issues albeit within their technical terms and industry-terminology to further incapacitate us and compeling us into emabarrassingly giving up and running).
Regards, Wayne |
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southline
New Member
Posts:20
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| 26 Dec 2009 06:13 AM |
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Hi Wayne, any way of finding loop temps?
Adam. |
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Bergy
Basic Member
Posts:277
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| 26 Dec 2009 11:18 AM |
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Wayne,
You should think twice before accusing people of "masquerading" as anything. The hard working people on this forum try to help people like you out of the kindness of their hearts and a desire to root out those in the game for a quick buck. The guys on this forum are pretty good at calling out anyone trying to misrepresent themselves.
Bergy
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Wayne Snyder
New Member
Posts:6
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| 26 Dec 2009 01:46 PM |
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Thank you Adam. It would have been really helpful for my installer to have left his readings with me so I could pass them on. I have no readings and no instrumentation to take readings; all I do know is the readings have always been "within acceptable limits". As I have indicated to Taffy, I am now going to wait (with apprehension) until after this winter is over before following up on my concerns about the efficiency of the unit. At that time I will have hydro bills for a full year to compare to previous years.
Bergy, your indignation is noted and understood. I am confident that ALL those that respond do so in good faith. However, one of the respondants has tipped his hand to me to show that he is indeed a company rep and although this is fine too, why deal at arm's length and with a sobriquet? Identify yourself, come to your customers home and solve the problems once and for all. In not doing so, doesn't this in effect show that the company is reluctant to stand behind it's product?
On another note and just for my information, since I am communicating with some installers out there, wouldn't it be really good business to leave the work site as you found it? As you have read earlier, my yard was torn up and left for me to repair (I was not forewarned that this was to be my responsibility). I had huge mud tracts and holes where my driveway once was, ruts sunk down about one foot deep and four foot wide in my lawn, (bumps and scrapes in my drywall, torn wallpaper and tears in my broadloom). Apart from the interior damage done by MY installer, why can't all installers at least plan to re-landscape? This could be easily done with the equipment you have. I had an independant contractor resurface my driveway, fill the gouges and ruts with topsoil and reseed at a cost of $2515. Wouldn't this have been cheaper (and more convenient) for me had the original installer included this in his itemized, initial planning and estimate?
It just feels like they hit and run and left me to pick up the mess.
Just asking.
Thank you and regards to all, and a belated Merry Christmas
Wayne
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Taffy
New Member
Posts:24
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| 26 Dec 2009 02:56 PM |
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But I don't want to wait till next winter - a two month period with a bill of $100 more than last year with a 30 year old forced air gas furnace is enough. I go to the cottage May to November (another reason why the Oct 3-Dec 3 bill was so scary and so outrageous - the water heater was shut off and the therm setpoint was 60' and only the fan was on till Nov 15) and this year was much milder. It's finding someone who understands the Tranq 27 to effectively troubleshoot that is the problem. I called Next Energy and they said I should call one of the other licensed dealers in my area that's noted on their website "but I would probably have to pay for a service call". It seems to me the manufacturer who granted my installer a license should be putting this right, or at least recommending someone who understands this unit AND would be willing to fix it. I will gladly pay if I could be sure of a fix. I think Wayne is brave (and probably rich!) to be willing to wait another year. |
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Bergy
Basic Member
Posts:277
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| 28 Dec 2009 08:01 AM |
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Posted By Wayne Snyder on 12/26/2009 1:46 PM
On another note and just for my information, since I am communicating with some installers out there, wouldn't it be really good business to leave the work site as you found it? As you have read earlier, my yard was torn up and left for me to repair (I was not forewarned that this was to be my responsibility). I had huge mud tracts and holes where my driveway once was, ruts sunk down about one foot deep and four foot wide in my lawn, (bumps and scrapes in my drywall, torn wallpaper and tears in my broadloom). Apart from the interior damage done by MY installer, why can't all installers at least plan to re-landscape? This could be easily done with the equipment you have. I had an independant contractor resurface my driveway, fill the gouges and ruts with topsoil and reseed at a cost of $2515. Wouldn't this have been cheaper (and more convenient) for me had the original installer included this in his itemized, initial planning and estimate?
It just feels like they hit and run and left me to pick up the mess.
Just asking.
Thank you and regards to all, and a belated Merry Christmas
Wayne
Wayne, As a contractor, we always leave a job site better than we found it. If damages do happen, we accept responsibility. We sit down with our clients and let them know what to expect from the install process. We let them know that loop field installation does not include final re-grading of the yard and most importantly... we stand behind our work and our products. Bergy
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joe.ami
Veteran Member
Posts:4377
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| 28 Dec 2009 09:45 AM |
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Posted By Wayne Snyder on 12/26/2009 1:46 PM
Thank you Adam. It would have been really helpful for my installer to have left his readings with me so I could pass them on. I have no readings and no instrumentation to take readings; all I do know is the readings have always been "within acceptable limits". As I have indicated to Taffy, I am now going to wait (with apprehension) until after this winter is over before following up on my concerns about the efficiency of the unit. At that time I will have hydro bills for a full year to compare to previous years. Bergy, your indignation is noted and understood. I am confident that ALL those that respond do so in good faith. However, one of the respondants has tipped his hand to me to show that he is indeed a company rep and although this is fine too, why deal at arm's length and with a sobriquet? Identify yourself, come to your customers home and solve the problems once and for all. In not doing so, doesn't this in effect show that the company is reluctant to stand behind it's product? On another note and just for my information, since I am communicating with some installers out there, wouldn't it be really good business to leave the work site as you found it? As you have read earlier, my yard was torn up and left for me to repair (I was not forewarned that this was to be my responsibility). I had huge mud tracts and holes where my driveway once was, ruts sunk down about one foot deep and four foot wide in my lawn, (bumps and scrapes in my drywall, torn wallpaper and tears in my broadloom). Apart from the interior damage done by MY installer, why can't all installers at least plan to re-landscape? This could be easily done with the equipment you have. I had an independant contractor resurface my driveway, fill the gouges and ruts with topsoil and reseed at a cost of $2515. Wouldn't this have been cheaper (and more convenient) for me had the original installer included this in his itemized, initial planning and estimate? It just feels like they hit and run and left me to pick up the mess. Just asking. Thank you and regards to all, and a belated Merry Christmas Wayne I think we spent a good deal of time establishing that presentation/expectation was the biggest problem with your system Wayne (based on what very little data you offered). Yet you continue to carp about Climatemaster and your landscaping. Forgive me for saying, but a group of pros who have literally spent thousands of hours educating all who ask are not the ones to continue to complain to. If you spent this much energy researching your geo, you wouldn't have had so many suprises. I wish you piece of mind......and a happy new year. Joe |
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Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort! |
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Wayne Snyder
New Member
Posts:6
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| 28 Dec 2009 02:11 PM |
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Of course I will forgive you Joe. I might mention it was you who summarily decided that presentation/expectation was the biggest problem with my installation. I presented all the information I had, could obtain or was left with. I put my money down after doing my research (how much is enough?) and with trust expected performance and satisfaction. I continue to receive sarcasm and ridicule.
In fact, and as you can see, I left this forum in July having discovered the now useless HRV was a major part of the problem, but was contacted by Taffy at his overture so I did not initiate this latest dialogue, although I am happy to respond to Taffy, which I did privately as well. Therefore of course 'carping' is not what is happening here. Expressing our concerns to this forum are not necessarily targeted at the pros who respond, although their response is greatly appreciated. Only the paranoic would take umbrage. I hope, from this and other forums, those who have the ear of the uncaring manufacturers will not install their products (and advise them of same) and those that are doing research will not hire these installers until they clean up their act.
Take the last word as you are wont to do, Joe, but remember that your sarcasm and ridicule of me as a victim will not solve these very real issues.
Regards, Wayne
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Taffy
New Member
Posts:24
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| 28 Dec 2009 02:32 PM |
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I agree with Wayne. I really appreciate having ANYBODY respond to my concerns as my installer has been caught in lies and doesn't follow through as promised on the phone, his serviceman that I dealt with twice had less knowledge of this particular system's optimum operation than I do and I have so far been unsuccessful at getting a different licensed installer out to look. I've tried two different ones at Next Energy's suggestion - perhaps my mistake is naming the original installer - maybe they've corrected his work before...... I really did do my research, I still think I chose the right unit but I made the mistake of believing my installer's sales pitch. |
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joe.ami
Veteran Member
Posts:4377
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| 03 Jan 2010 10:35 AM |
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Posted By joe.ami on 07/10/2009 8:49 AM
----In our private communications you indicated that your previous (to the heat pump) consumption was 13,100 kw/yr while your 11 month total after heat pump purchase is 23698kw. So at your .11 cents kw you spent $1441.00 last year and with one month to go you've spent $2607.00 this year difference is $1165. Looks like the numbers are dead on. Now with the savings of 4064 litres of fuel oil at .9/litre (or $3657) your savings this year is about $2,400 (of course oil has been much higher).
Right now, July 5/09, I have it set for 72 degrees but the humidity is overwhelming and I cannot control it, I have a dehumidifier working overtime in the basement and it cannot keep up. I may have to put in my 12,000 btu window air conditioner to handle the humidity.
-----You indicated to me that it is 65* out and 69* in your home so the heat pump won't run or dehumidify if set for 72*. Nor would any system.
That said.....As I look over your numbers here and the one's you provided me privately, the heat pump seems to be doing every thing that was promised when you bought it (save maintaining 72*). The price of fuel oil dropped so your savings may be less against a .90 litre than a $1.35 litre, but as cold as the winter was $2,400 isn't chump change.
2 things remain to address however:
The ERV. This will add load and may or may not have been calculated into the heat loss you gave me.
The winter set point. I asked you for some thermostat information, as well as wether you had the breakers of to your aux. coil. Hopefully with those answers we can fix you up to a cozy 72* next winter.
Once that's done and the system delivers everything promised when you chose to buy it, I hope you'll be a happy geo owner.
Re. Dehumidification, your old air conditioner only dehumidifies while it's running, why would we expect the geo to be different? We have mild summers every 5 years or so where this circumstance (low ambient high rh) exists. Those years are great for sales of whole house dehumi's (~$2,000). Most folks choose to just set the AC to 67 instead.
Wish you luck,
J
The sarcasm and ridicule mentioned are from you alone Wayne. I meant what I said regarding your system working okay (except where you interfered) and wishing you peace of mind. The biggest problem with your system is: "expectation". You expect cost projections to be dead on in a near record cold winter. You expect a system partially disabled by you to maintain 70*f in near record cold winter. You expect a system that is not running (due to your setpoint and unusually mild summer) to magically dehumidify the air. Your savings of ~$2,400 this year is apparently not sufficient. Would it have been less if you ran the aux coil in the coldest months? Sure if your aux. heater was on 12 hours a day for a month, your savings for the year would only have been $2,000 over fuel oil (that just had an unprecedented price drop) in near record low temps. I didn't summarily decide anything, I took time to digest information and run data through software and compare your actual usage to projections and discovered that your system is working fine (when allowed to). Reasonable people expect projections to be off in record weather. Reasonable people don't expect anything from a system that's not running. Reasonable people do not attack folks that offer them time and expertise to try to help. People who continue to complain once most of their complaints are shown to be invalid are "carping". Your numbers don't support your continued dissatisfaction. If you have new information that disproves my conclusions, I'd be glad to look at it. Good luck, Joe |
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Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort! |
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