A DX contractor quoted a 5 ton system for us, with 20 kW emergency heat strip, desuperheater, excavation, and all duct work, at $27,600. The contractor indicated 5 bore holes would be needed, at 135 feet depth each.  Electrical panel upgrade to 200 amps is separate.

WaterFurnace quoted us $25,863 for a 5 ton unit, with 20 kW emergency heat strip, desuperheater, and all duct work. 5 bore holes are to be dug at 165 feet depth each. I am handling the excavation separately with a local vendor, so figure that at an additional $750 on top of the $25,863. Again, the electrical panel upgrade to 200 amps is separate.
 
The DX quote was, therefore, was $987 more for the same tonnage, emergency backup, and desuperheater. That's not enough of a price difference to be highly significant for what we are trying to achieve, so the selling points became the differences in how the two systems operate along with considerations of the pros and cons of water/antifreeze ground loops vs, freon ground loops.


The electrical panel upgrade is completed and cost me an additional $1880.

Dave ... the closed loop water heat exchanger you refer to as an additional cost in the WF systems is simply the coaxial tubing system isolating the ground loop water from the the freon of the compressor/air handler system.

WaterFurnace emphasizes the better efficiency of their scroll-pump compressor/condensor over standard piston-type compressors. I don't know what DX uses ... scroll or piston-type ... perhaps someone in this forum can answer that.

Robin,
While both systems are in contact with the ground, DX cuts out the water (middleman) and has refrigerant in the loops.

KJ,
How are dealer references. I hold that more important than brand or type. Other active threads demonstrate that while things have gone wrong with both DX and water source equipment, dealer commitment to satisfied customers has matter more than brand/type.
That said, I'm not familiar with a DX that can plunge 135 feet. What brand is it?
Good luck,
Joe

OK Robin on your prices .....

In New England DX loops are drilled to 100 feet @ about $12.00 per foot .
A five ton system would cost $6,000 to get the holes drilled , loops installed and grouted....

The water loop drillers are getting $20.00 per foot and they are also installing the loops and
grouting them..... With wells at 165 feet that's $16,500 for a ground loop system to support 5 tons.....

That's a big difference before you even start in the home....

Neither price include the loops and copper loops cost more , but with a flow center on a water loop the price difference would be a wash......

DX can be drilled at a diagonal with drilling taking place in a 6 foot circle , water loop wells are going to be at least 20 feet apart from each other....



A dual capacity 5 ton Envision will list for over $11,000

So it sounds like you have a very good price on the WaterFurnace system ......

Either system will work good for you.......

I have a 2 ton WaterFurnace Veristec on a open loop and just had wells drilled for a DX system.....

Dave in NH

It appears from KJ's post that both bids include the boreholes in the quotes. DX systems are also using scroll compressors.  One difference for comparison may be a 2-stage vs. 1-stage unit. Earthlinked has single stage DX units while Nordic has some 2-stage DX units.

2-stage units can have some benefits in our area of PA for dehumidification so do you know which DX unit is proposed?

-Adam

Nordic is not pushing their DX systems right now (revisions to handle R-410 in the works).

"Neither price include the loops and copper loops cost more , but with a flow center on a water loop the price difference would be a wash......"
My experience with DX loops is they cost 2-3 times what I pay for HDPE and a flow center. Drilling and grouting is the same price here so some ground is made up due to shorter bores, but vertical or horizontal my DX job cost is higher.
Joe

I don’t have a written quote from the contractor for the DX system we were first quoted for an Advanced Geothermal system, as he gave it to me over the phone and the sticker shock was enough to stop me in my tracks and make me investigate much more deeply [that’s when I located this web forum]. I am confident about the contractor’s intent to drill 135’ holes, though he himself may well have been in error stating that depth. I recall questioning him when he was here measuring the house, because my water well depth is 135’ and I asked about the potential for conflict with my water at that depth. He said the driller would ensure there was no conflict. I do believe you when you say the piping comes for 100 ft wells, though, and suspect this contractor didn’t know the system that well. I don’t know if the DX system quoted was a single-stage or 2-stage unit … the contractor never mentioned there were options. I wasn’t convinced the DX contractor was well-informed about his product, because he couldn’t give me direct answers to many of my questions --- more like BS followed by changing the subject. When I asked how many he had installed, he said “ 2 or 3”. When the number is that low, you know whether it was 2 or 3 !!
When I contacted the 2nd contractor advertising geothermal installations [I chose him from the phone book] I expected to be quoted on a DX system, because I didn’t know there was another option at the time in this region. However, this 2nd contractor told me about WaterFurnace. When he visited to do his measuring, he seemed to know his products very well, plus he wasn’t overly-bearing about pushing geothermal. He made sure I knew a geothermal system was going to be expensive upfront, and went over the other options available to replace my broken fuel oil driven hot water radiator system. He was upfront about the heat from a radiator system being very comfortable, and he actually favored it over a forced-air system. He said he has installed over a dozen of these geothermal systems.
With the DX contractor I had asked about installing the new ductwork and air handler in the attic, as it would avoid floor vents and be easier to feed into the new addition we are building next spring. The DX contractor went with that concept without challenging me at all about the pros and cons of an attic installation for a dominant-heating system in our somewhat harsh winter climate. The WaterFurnace contractor was adamantly against an attic installation, and lectured me about the heat losses and condensation problems I would face. He convinced me he knew what he was talking about, so I changed my mind and went with the crawlspace/basement installation. He was also insistent I improve my home's exisitng insulation.
As I learned more about WaterFurnace from their website and this forum, I became more comfortable with their product over DX … I was certainly more comfortable with the contractor I was dealing with now. I did check the Better Business Bureau for my contractor and driller. Both have been in business nearly a century each as family-owned businesses [ 97 years for the contractor and 90 years for the driller]. Neither has any record of complaints with the BBB in the last 3 years [that’s as far back as the BBB goes I presume from their website]. I found out by chance 2 weeks ago that a local acquaintance of mine had a geothermal system installed by the same contractor and driller 3 years ago and was [and is] totally satisfied with the contractor, the driller, and their WF system.
The technicians who have been here a week now installing the unit and ductwork have been able to answer every question I have asked them. They didn’t have to refer to the manual to see where the components went as they put it together. They stated they have installed six WaterFurnace units previously … a Premier system just 2 weeks prior to my installation. I also asked them about the pros and cons of the attic installation vs. crawlspace/basement ducting, and there was no hesitation in his response that the crawlspace/basement ducting was much preferred over the attic … even though it would be much easier to work in my attic than my crawlspace !
I am satisfied with what we are getting at this point in time. Everything appears to be going well.

Glad to hear it

Keep us advised, especially if further questions arise.

The ductwork and Envision unit installation are complete. The flow controller has been mounted and wired. Well-drilling is scheduled for later next week. The 'emergency' heat works extremely well [sucking those amps right up]. Since it is cool here overnight [high 40's to mid 50's] we'll use it a bit for the next week to see how it performs by itself. The fan is so, so quiet --- I have it on continuous mode right now, and you can't hear it at all on low or medium setting. The only way you know its on is to put your hand over a supply vent and feel it blowing. On high setting, you can hear a very low rush of air, but its nothing liked our forced-air system at our previous home. I don't mean to imply its not moving a large volume of air --- it moves an awful lot of air through the supplies !!
One of our cats did disappear into the return ductwork this morning for about 5 hours, so that became a rather annoying delay prior to closing everything up. I probed with my borescope til I found her sleeping quietly in one of the large returns.

I guarantee the ductwork would have been much noisier with optional cat module left in place.

Quiet ductwork is a good sign of good ductwork, especially when connected to an ECM blower.