I moved into a 4000sf home in Carlisle PA in July 2010.  The home is 5 years old and built on a concrete slab with Hardwood floor on the first floor and a mix of hardwood and carpet on the second floor.  We have a closed loop geothermal system Climatemaster Genesis GSS060BGC01 and Carrier Air Handler.  We have 3 thermostats located throughout the home.  In December 2010 we went to Florida for 10 days and on my return I opened my utility bill and found the home had used 8098 KWH equating to a charge of $ 1020 for 34 days usage at an average of 238 KWH per day.  During this time the thermostats were set at 65 degrees F.  Where is the cost saving coming from in this Geothermal System???

The company who installed it came out on 1/7/2011 and said the Auxillary heat was kicking on too soon contributing to the high electric usage.  Adjustments were made on the control board of the Air Handler so the Auxillary heat did not kick on too often.

However, on 1/8/11 after this adjustment was made and with the first thermostat set at 65 the second at 62 and the third at 51 (bonus room over garage) the 12 hour usage overnite was 101 KWH.  I then turned the first one to 65 the second to 62 and the third to the OFF position.  I had a fire burning during the daylight hours of Saturday.  Over the next 24 hours up until 8 am this morning it used 211 KWH.

HELP!!!! this is crazy what can be wrong.  I have monitored the thermostats and the auxillary heat is not coming on.

I already have used over 2000KWH this month and am heading for another $1000 if not more utility bill. 

Anybody with some sound advice?

PS.  I lived for 4 years in Northern MD in a 5000sf home with two gas furnaces and the highest utility bill I received in one month during winter was $540 where is the cost saving in Geothermal or is it just a hoax like global warming?? 

We understand your frustration, but we can assure you that geo is not a "hoax" regardless of anyone's position on global warming. Calling it so on your very first post while you come, hat in hand, seeking free advice will not enamor you with the volunteer geo experts here.

We do have a 10 question "start here if you think something is wrong with your geo system" permanent post at the top of the page. Kindly reply with answers as many of those questions you can.

I agree that your power use seems high. I believe that something is causing the house to be entirely, or nearly entirely heated with resistance strips only. This can happen regardless of thermostat calls or setpoints. The compressor may be locking out, and the most common cause is low loop temperatures or flows. Loss of refrigerant charge is another, though not quite as probable cause.

A competent geo tech should be able to verify charge, loop temps, air temperatures, aux strip and compressor operation in a short time.

Thank you for your feedback.  My comment on being a hoax was more tongue in cheek than believing it is a hoax.  I realize there are plenty of efficient geothermals out there.   As you may realize I am very frustrated at the situation with no solution in sight, not to mention the fact that I am wearing outdoor winter clothes inside my home to keep warm.  Hopefully the installer can return on Monday and come up with a solution, in the meantime I will have to face another large electric bill at the end of the month.

Have you tried manually flipping the breakers on the aux/emergency heat to see if they are what is causing the massive draw?

For comparison sake my house has been using about 90-100kwh per day, but my house is 4800sq ft and entirely electric (5 ton ground loop). My resistance heat hasn't turned on once and mostly I see long stage 1 run times at 4000-4200 watts (heat pump load).

My entering loop temp is approx 42 dF right now.

Do you happen to notice any ice or frost on the well loop where it enters inside the house? 

Posted By GeoJohn on 09 Jan 2011 10:54 PM
Do you happen to notice any ice or frost on the well loop where it enters inside the house? 

oops..mistake

No there is no ice or frost on the loop entering the home. The installation company was out on Friday ran some diagnostics on the system. This is the comments on the call: Checked out Geo found running to Spec, Setup EWC Zone Board so Aux Heat does not kick on so often. Set First Stage heat limit on 120 degrees, 2nd stage timer on 42 minutes and multi stage heat differential at 30 to raise limit to 150 degrees. However on Saturday and Sunday I had the zone in the Bonus room above the garage turned off and the other two zones set at 65 and 62 degrees respectively. On Saturday the system used 211 KWH and on Sunday 222 KWH respectively. I am checking the thermostats when the heat comes on to see whether the Aux Heat is kicking in, and so far it has not kicked on. This is scary given the low temps the thermostats are set at and one is not even on. Any comments ???

I'd have a competent tech come out for a complete diagnostic of the system. Determine EWT, LWT and heat of extraction first. This will make sure the unit is providing the amount of heat it is designed for. Second check the EAT, entering air temp vs. the LAT, leaving air temp. Check temperature drop from the unit to the supplies and returns. You may have some air-side issues. Make sure they check the total external static to make sure the ductwork is performing per the fan curves of the unit. If no answer after these checks, post the results and we may be able to advise further.

You have some sort of serious problem with the house. Even if you used resistance heat exclusively, That would be 27 million BTU’s used for the month. IF you assumed a cop of 3, you are talking 80million btu’s.
I think the first thing I would do is an energy audit and find out why you are blowing through so many BTU’s. Your energy consumption is very high.

I suspect your problem might be the house, not the geo.

Since the first tech did not resolve the problem, I would call again asking that their best geothermal tech come out. If he was the best, I would look elsewhere. In the meantime, I also like the idea of disabling aux to see if the system performs adequately. If it does, aux is coming on when it doesn't need to (possibly due to a wiring or other thermostat issue) and unnecessarily running up your bill. Beware that turning off the aux breakers may turn off your blower as well depending on how the system was wired.

If you have some spare time, you could try calling your electric company to see if they will tell you what the prior electric usage was on the house for last winter. Depending on who you get on the phone, they may provide you with this information or not. But, high electric bills the prior year still doesn't mean the system is running as designed. Were you provided with an annual utility estimate when you bought the house?

Thank you to all of you who have offered advice thus far. This really does help me through what is proving a most frustrating and stressful time.

I called the utility company this morning and they informed me that this house has used on average over the last three years the following:

December: 6000KWH January: 7000 KWH February: 6500KWH Clearly this system on heat mode has never worked since its installation.

The company which installed the system is coming back today to install 3 new thermostats and make some adjustments to the zone board in an effort to limit the high KWH usage. The current thermostats are not showing that it is using aux heat although I realize that does not mean necessarily that the aux heat in the air handler is not coming on. Hopefully this is a thermostat and adjustment issue and nothing more than that.

Unfortunately I did not get an estimate of annual utility usage prior to moving in the house in July 2010. The cooliing part of the system this summer performed great especially with the fact that the summer in the area was hotter than normal. July we used 2450 KWH, August 2470 KWH, September 1855 KWH, October 1538 KWH, November 3149 KWh and then it just went up and up from there.

Hang in there. While the installer is out, have them show you how to turn off the aux breakers (without effecting anything else) in case you want to try turning them off for diagnostic purposes (in case electric usage remains high.) I hope the installers checks all the wiring (i.e. thermostats, zone board, and to the geothermal unit.) I'd have him check DIP switch settings too (if any.) It would be great if they could confirm unit operation in the specific areas that others have suggested.

Keep the thermostat manuals and try to get a copy of the zone manual too for your reference.

So in the summer, you are using 2500 kwh? Again, I stand by my earlier statement. You have an issue with energy efficiency of the house, not necessarily the geo system.
Here is why I say this. Assume3/4 your summer electrical usage is cooling. That equals1875 kwh and the unit has a seer of 15 (guess) ie 15 btu’s cooling/watt electricity.
Cooling is 1875 kwh*1000*15= 28 million btu’s per month for cooling in the summer. Your winter heating energy needs are ~3-4 times higher which makes sense. Greater delta T, lower efficiency in heating mode.
You seem to have a very large heat loss in the house. I would start there. Just because the house is fairly new does not mean it was insulated properly.
Are your ducts run in unconditioned attic space? Is the flue of your fireplace open all the time? How about an attic stair?

Start with an energy audit.
Good Luck

Eric

Confirmed with the Township Building Inspector that the slab was installed and insulated to the PA and local building codes. Fortunately the inspector is very familiar with my home at the time of being built and new every detail regarding the building of it. So I guess that gives me some piece of mind. It is the only home in the developement with no basement so he quickly recognised the home I was refering too. I will endeavor to get all manuals from the technician. Thanks once again for the advice.

Eric,
The flue of the 2 wood burning firelplaces are closed unless they are in use. The air handler is in the attic and and the attic area has fibreglass insulatiion on the ceiliing of the room below but not on the pitch of the roof. The duct work is run in this area. The duct work has puffy insulation clad in black plastic and the air handler has foam insulation around it with a shiny silver covering.
Thanks

It really does sound like a problem of heat loss/ energy efficiency. Along with that, it seems that it could be the controls of the electric heat coupled with the high load. Make sure, along with the energy audit, that the electric heat is only being used when necessary.

Also, with an energy audit, make sure someone who's competent does it. Some I've seen done are a joke.

Let us know what you find.

How's your roof look after these recent snowfalls? Nice even coat of snow?

Technician has just left to get a replacement EWC control board. Calling for geothermal but the aux heat is kicking on. Will update later once it has been installed. Will read electric meter when he leaves and then again tomorrow morning to see if it is still in the 210 to 220 KWH per day usage

I hope this does the trick. Hard to believe that the prior owners lived with this problem for years. I forgot to mention earlier, ask to keep the installation manuals as well as the owners manuals.

geome, thanks for all the comments and to all the rest of you out there. To answer the question on the snow on the roof, it remains very even and there is no area where it appears to melt faster than other areas. The sadest thing is in February 08 the previous owners of the house notified the HVAC company who installed the system of a high utility bill they serviced the system and left and did not here back from the owners. Based on the utility companies info over the last three years this control board has been broken for 3 winters and nothing was done about it. Will write another update tomorrow. Thanks to one and all