Wanna install your own geo?
Last Post 01 May 2012 12:23 AM by joe.ami. 38 Replies.
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GTJONUser is Offline
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22 Apr 2012 09:56 AM
DocJ

Thank you so much detail.



This is not a challenge of wits, too many can see well enough.

we like blunt statements



If his driller IS too expensive and I question it NOT KNOWING ALL THE INFORMATION BEHIND THE LINES
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~about something touched on re: costs of drilling.

Clearly I would only ask Hock WHAT WAS THE DRILLING COST and WHY would that have been a mistake TO HIM?
If I cared...much about the PERSON writing the post.

~
My first Controlair went in in 1980, I will try to be helpful and will be self controlled

....
(I had to be trained in interview style discourse. It still is a process with me to ask what do you mean about just....?)
GTJONUser is Offline
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22 Apr 2012 10:18 AM
Yeah JOE !

GREAT!

Working with a handful of DIY'ers

Like
found the Cleveland elder chiller builder of a large contracting company who said he designed that co's 1st chiller...

with a 20-year old system, so I did it for another, just as I saw, very inexpensively:

all the pipes from 4 loops hit PLASTIC barbs and PVC !!!

He said make the glue wet with primer and IMMEDIATELY put the rain-shine more flexible glue on.


down to one pump, just like companies of the 1980's did... 3-ton runs fine., the pump to the t_assembly can almost purge 2 lines at once with 15% glycol, he said.

I DO NOT LIKE PVC for a thirty-year system but the 1981-1084 installs are holding...

I (heat-) fuse all since ~ 1993 even DIY to inside when they want the header made up.




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22 Apr 2012 11:25 AM
Quotes by Hockeyman: "10 ft deep slinky loops in NE WY winters doesn't give enough btu's! "


" Almost 2nd mistake- hire driller to punch (3) 200 ft vertical holes for new ground loops. Solid limestone starting at 15 ft deep made that option cost prohibitive..."

Here were the misleading statements. There are a lot of people here seeking information who are new to geo, who might get mislead by those statements. 10 ft deep slinkies will work great anywhere in the continental US for winter heat, if designed and installed correctly. Secondly, solid limestone is not cost prohibitive to drill in. It can be ideal, we get the lowest drilling quote if we hit bedrock as soon as possible. If I see misleading statements made here, me and others feel obligated to jump in and set the record straight. Hockeyman admits that he did many mistakes designing his system. Nobody is helped here if incorrect information by DIY selfers is passed on here. Other jumped in as well. No accusation here, simply ensuring that false information is not misleading others.


www.buffalogeothermalheating.com
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22 Apr 2012 01:05 PM

so I will ask HOCK:
although WE ALL NOTED just add more loop--- of any consequence... the instant as when viewed

I will ask WHAT
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22 Apr 2012 01:20 PM


We had a wonderful DIY guy with a 42-deg loop in Col ohio this winter at PEAK COLDES 18deg...
4000 and a half walk out ICF uninsulated paltes...basement full of yipping chua's for show;
Well insulated uppers,
 ripped his dx out after 14 years like another after 16 years (Dx an work today...not to mislead, people get sued for undersized gas on manual J in Gates Mils under cleveland)

8) 2ft x 10ft deep at 240 ft each length 10ft apart
Hydro-Temp has 74k in that one (to some Size 7) with 3/4 x 8 on 1.1/2" two B&G NRF 36 pumps nearly 24 gpm...
a lotta HW  many days...  50 gal 125deg kept &  80 gallon GT reservoir recovers in minutes (18-24)

warm all over 72-74 upstairs , one zone with bypass at damper space in duct... said never hit stage 3 (both compressors) but a short time (2 hours over a 42 k (4.0) second compressor,  logged on Palm(tm) toolbox

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23 Apr 2012 08:46 AM
Just to clarify, when I say misleading I certainly do not mean that this is intentional. Nevertheless, people here should be allowed to step in and correct it.
www.buffalogeothermalheating.com
joe.amiUser is Offline
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23 Apr 2012 09:10 AM
John very early in your first excruciatingly long post on this thread, you mentioned you were late to the conversation.......next time at that point leave it alone.
If you were familiar with Docs entire body of work, you would not have reacted the same way.

While we are on the subject, I can tell you I am to the point of skipping over your posts as getting to your point is exhausting. If you can't limit yourself to a paragraph or two, I suspect others will gloss over your contributions as well.
Enough about Hydrotemp as well. They are small beans in this industry and far from good advice. If they work for you, great. But to suggest a shopper seek them out is wrong headed at best. Why the He!! would anyone suggest their installer abandon their favorite for yours?
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort!
jonrUser is Offline
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23 Apr 2012 09:37 AM
I too find gtjp responses very hard to follow. Simpler and clearer would be appreciated.
LoobyUser is Offline
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23 Apr 2012 10:48 AM
Posted By jonr on 23 Apr 2012 09:37 AM

I too find gtjp responses very hard to follow.

I find them not worth the effort. If Mr. gtjp doesn't have the common
courtesy to at least attempt writing coherent sentences, with some
remote resemblance to English syntax and punctuation, I refuse
to waste my time attempting to decipher his word salad.

It's too bad that this forum does't have an "ignore" filter -- or a
moderator willing to delete the rude scatter-shot spamming of
nearly every active thread.

Looby

One measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions.
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23 Apr 2012 07:22 PM
Just think "Yoda" for syntax and comprehension goes way up.
GTJONUser is Offline
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24 Apr 2012 02:08 AM
for a self installed (decent) duct system and wiring and plumbing....
I found creative contracting may resolve losses of somewhat of a loss of Tax Crediting (that 30%).

At the end, the DIY was only about 2000 different
than had 30% kicked in on all for the credit. his hours were not accountable as dollars.
 How about the time he could have spent on other constructs of the new home?

Pleae find "major brands" are not as experienced as some of the other 8 brands that so many have well used.
1978 OEM: Hydro-Temp of arkansa was aksed by WF to build for them; and Carrier and Trane

What a price , but see if it has a 3-Ton compressor inside if it might matter to ya.
Major brand rated units frequently only have a 2.33 ton compressor in the "SIZE 3.0" box.

For "Size 3.0" useful DeHumidification, the blowers are slowed down.
This is simply put: For better results is just barely like  2.1/2 tons in a "3.0" then.
Have fun!

JP

www.GEOPros.org
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24 Apr 2012 02:33 AM
Since the shoppers have a basis that can be shown to seek them out, I will adhear to available information for them.

Thanks for your site , still, Johe !

JP (GTJon)


Doc J and I know we disagree on what all was represented about hockey...  My body of work is reading as it is, not a pattern near something. This is why I will only say there was not enough evidence that hockey meant only "his mistake". Adding any more is not recognizable in debate, so it is here with me ended. "Up with this I will no longer put", to use correct english.

Hey joe:
Ya still just do HVAC GT
or do you install DeSuperheating hybrids as Energy Star(TM) has required of us to get the customer in place for a 30% credit?

The "it works for you" and "not clout" and whatever else won't stop the GC's and potential answers to questions answered with evidence: Priority HW is a FULL-Sized DeSuperheater for Full-Sized savings, and more dollars over 10 years but with the very same ROI-to perhaps a year longer from 2-7 years for returns on differences in 'out-of'pocket' .
Well if SINCE more loop is required, would it be safe to say more of that sustainable free energy is benefitting the beholder?

Performance guarantees have their way about sharing better systems. We can all share more acuraete choices, right?


wwwGEOPros.org
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24 Apr 2012 10:20 AM
....no DSH and on demand DHW are not the same. No WTA units with DSH are not considered hybrid. No use of a DSH does not add a double digit percent of operating hours.

.....and so we jump from incoherent to misinformed or disingenuous.

John I don't know that I dislike you. I don't know that I wouldn't enjoy chatting with you about geo sometime. I do know that so far I dislike your contributions here. Your constant resurrection of old threads, disruption of new threads, criticism of respected contributers, promotion of an obscure product, incoherent babblings in multiple consecutive posts etc. are ill mannered and unhelpful.

I will alert admin to all future posts that continue this rude behavior and ask that they intervene.......or hopefully you can edit yourself into useful contributions.
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort!
GTJONUser is Offline
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28 Apr 2012 04:02 PM
Thank you for at least trying to understand, as I will:
NOW
POLITELY JOHE!

All one has to do is ask when there is a confusing point.
DocJ wanted to know, so he asked.
Others shared "what do you mean?", and I reworded with more EVIDENCE, and it was replied OK!
to respond to the first direction received: no clout, before I knew you did not know, seemed critical... just a bit, eh
then size of potatoes
then 'take w/ grain of salt' 
ahh  who clouds but some just not using a machine ON SCHOOL BIDS by climate master and others
a first in Dual compressor single circuit in GT later copied by TRANE
building for the same and Carrier and did for WF

then misguidence as a heat pump is a SIMPLE machine (wikepedia def needs simplifying) may come from my english, but not the facts I will learn to put in to others semantics, eventually

so
symaniacally  oh- semantically writing:

a compressor with a piece of pipe of it ADDED beyond GEO EXCHANGE and others def of a GT HtP, is less hybrid than a longer piece of FULL desuperheating- copper tubing...?
--- well that is too dizzy to me.
But
if that longer size pipe-tubing -HX area plate in the exact same spot
DOES DESUPERHEAT
does precisely DeSuperheat,
 in heating
and cooling
and then acts as a desuperheater, is LONGER than SHORT-HYBRID-ADD-ON desuperheaters... but some would gesture: not a DeSuperheater?
to me that is just dizziness...

OK Green VIEWERS:
 I will give the questions to ask. This is no different than any over-engineered review, so

A GeoThermal water-source heat pump:
Does it have a compressor?
Can it run without a tubing of copper-pipe  called a desuperheater?
WHY does it have to have one for Tax Credits and rebates?

IS it AS OK
- if that add-on tubing-desuperheater was  of a larger size to BE ABLE TO receive more refrigerant-heat off the hot side of the compressor as it runs?
 Will it desuperheat, then , too?

Describe a water:water unit
as we get away from the compressor ---Is it a large enough heat exchanger that I can find on the hot side of the compressor to get all the heat? 
-so if you have an Energy Star Compliant DeSperheater
-pipe part ADDED in front of the GT section main heater W:W or a water-to-air,
 standard system,
 having a  large heat exchnager but as a device, just acting on heat per square inch ( a small hybrid-add-on-desuperheater that allows WORK for water or other fluids recirculated through it such as Domestic Water to receive heat-energy)
- is it more or is it any less, -JUST a HEAT EXCHANGE DEVICE?
any less a heat exchanger?

~~~Then would a longer tube in its place, also sharing heat first, also be able and in fact ACT LIKE A DESUPERHEATER?
Is that WHY it is recognized by all standards
in COMPLIANCE
alone withoutanother little-add-on-standard-desuperheater, because it IS just like a desuperheater, as far as water heating is concerned?

Did Hydro-Temp (AR) -unlike h-Delta in PA) --- did that function off the compressor about the patent in 1981 for also IN COOLING simultaneously pulling heat off the first heat of the compressor indicated as PRIORITY 100% On-Demand HW act any different than a W:W unit making chilled water on the cold side of the compressor while possibly making HW for my water tank, just like that larger piece off the hot side of a Hydro-Temp compressor?

Do you install -like-to-that with devices we are asking about, W:W?
Do you think if the palce of the usually called desuperheater is with a longer heat exchanger (fuller) that I can AVOID BUYING A W:W PLUS A WATER-AIR as 2 separate units? 
How much money will I save?

...

JP

www.GEOPros.org
joe.amiUser is Offline
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30 Apr 2012 01:19 PM
Again virtually incomprehensible John, but PLEASE do not try to explain. I'm past the point of sorting through each barrel of dung in a quest for one kernel of corn.
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort!
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30 Apr 2012 04:31 PM
Dewayne Dean

<br>www.PalaceGeothermal.com<br>Why settle for 90% when you can have 400%<br>We heat and cool with dirt!<br>visit- http://welserver.com/WEL0114/- to see my system
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30 Apr 2012 04:57 PM
Posted By joe.ami on 30 Apr 2012 01:19 PM
Again virtually incomprehensible John, but PLEASE do not try to explain.
Agreed.  Long ago (well, it seems like long ago given the frequent, lengthy, incomprehensible posts) I began deleting his posts from my email post notification without reading them (not that the posts are readable anyway.)  I'll setup an email rule to have future posts go directly to the trash can.
Homeowner with WF Envision NDV038 (packaged) & NDZ026 (split), one 3000' 4 pipe closed horizontal ground loop, Prestige thermostats, desuperheaters, 85 gal. Marathon.
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30 Apr 2012 11:08 PM
Will you really refuse to share with a cutomer the "least costly investment as a maintained system in 7 years" as HUD declared?

The public will be asking more.

It is WHY other manufacturers see fit to fit it in more than ever before.

Peace Johe.
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01 May 2012 12:23 AM
Huh?
Crap. There's an H in jhoe again.
joe
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort!
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