Geothermal Monitoring?
Last Post 28 Mar 2014 10:11 PM by docjenser. 22 Replies.
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Calgary GeoUser is Offline
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16 Mar 2014 11:17 PM
I am a installing contractor in Canada and I've been using the Powerhouse Dynamic eMonitor to monitor the electricity usage of our geothermal units and auxiliary heat. Recently Powerhouse has changed their distribution network and pricing has gone up to the point where I am looking for an alternative. In a perfect world I would like to monitor the electricity usage, monitor incoming and outgoing source water temperatures and load temperatures (either air or water). DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS? The eMonitor is a great product but pricing and the monthly or annual subscription is the drawback. I find after the initial 2 year subscription has expired, my customers are not renewing. For a demo of the product I am using, go to the following website and use the log in name and password. http://sitesage.net ; user name: calgarydemo4; password: emonitor
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16 Mar 2014 11:31 PM
Hands down: welserver.com



Here is an example:
http://welserver.com/WEL0712/
www.buffalogeothermalheating.com
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17 Mar 2014 09:04 AM
Double 'hands down:' http://www.welserver.com .  Everything you want to do is a fundamental capability of the WEL.

Your cost starting point is $400, plus cost for sensors.  Least expensive sensors are temperature (as low as $12).  Power/energy measurements require industry standard power transducer sensors, like what's built in to eMonitor.  Many WEL users use Continental Controls' 'WattNode' power/energy sensors.  Add about $250 for 1 - 3 circuits to monitor.

I use the WEL for commercial and industrial Measurement & Verification projects - for example, here's one that's public:  http://www.welserver.com/0640  .

This one is used to measure the performance benefit of an add on 'black box' to a big roof top chiller unit.  This is a good illustration of power and temperature measurement capabilities of the WEL.  It also does a good job showing the WEL's arithmetic capabilities of the WEL - reactive power elements are being measured to compute Power Factor, Degree Days are being computed, kWh and gallons of water are  being accumulated, etc.

Here's another WEL implementation that covers geothermal HVAC, solar PV, and some other subjects: http://www.welserver.com/0043 .  It uses RH and add-on pulse counters in addition to fundamental temp and power sensors.  Almost all arithmetic and logic configuration capabilities are illustrated.  This WEL is at my personal residence.  I use it for additional purposes, including teaching of classes on energy efficiency, and how geothermal HVAC units fundamentally work.

A big difference to the eMonitor is that you get your own web site (the WEL is an Internet Appliance) with capability to see it anywhere you have access to a browser, you can incorporate a picture at the beginning of the web site showing anything that you may want to label measured values on top of, the WEL is a 'pay once for everything' product (no monthly or recurring fees ever), and there is an email/text-msg alarm capability.

The WEL is easy to install.  Simply 'nail it to the wall,' connect an Ethernet cable from the WEL to a router, and connect sensors to the WEL, and plug in the power supply cable.  Sensors are easy to connect because many (particularly temperature, RH and pulse counting) use the '1-wire bus' technology.

It's pretty easy to configure for small and/or personal implementations.  For large commercial implementations, while the capability is present using the same $400 unit, the configuration can get to be complex and sizeable.

Individuals who have (fundamental) low voltage and/or communication wiring DIY skills almost always install their own WEL units.  Those individuals, though, who aren't comfortable with the configuration part, along with commercial companies, many times will hire companies such as mine to do the implementation for them.

See http://www.welserver.com/listofsites.htm for a list of WEL implementations that the customer is willing to be public to look at - there's an incredible amount examples and ideas, along with many, many illustrations on what the WEL's capabilities are.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

Bill

Energy reduction & monitoring
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX (www.americaneei.com)
Example monitoring system: www.welserver.com/WEL0043
Calgary GeoUser is Offline
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17 Mar 2014 12:21 PM
Thanks for the suggestion. I had a look and it looks like a very good monitoring system. I particularly like example 0712 for what I think my customers would like. I also notice that every site has different diagrams of their systems etc? How hard is this to put together as I don't want to spend a lot of time building the site? Most of my systems consist of (1) forced air geothermal unit with aux heat and (1) water to water unit for in-floor heating. But I do want to continue to monitor electricity. Docjenser, was it hard to put together 0712 and do you know the approximate cost would be for that very same system? Love that there is no monitoring fees associated with this system!
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17 Mar 2014 09:10 PM
You can standardize the background, you do it once, here are some more examples:


http://www.buffalogeothermalheating.com/sample_diagram.html
www.buffalogeothermalheating.com
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17 Mar 2014 09:58 PM
Posted By Calgary Geo on 17 Mar 2014 12:21 PM
Thanks for the suggestion. I had a look and it looks like a very good monitoring system. I particularly like example 0712 for what I think my customers would like. I also notice that every site has different diagrams of their systems etc? How hard is this to put together as I don't want to spend a lot of time building the site? Most of my systems consist of (1) forced air geothermal unit with aux heat and (1) water to water unit for in-floor heating. But I do want to continue to monitor electricity. Docjenser, was it hard to put together 0712 and do you know the approximate cost would be for that very same system? Love that there is no monitoring fees associated with this system!

Docjenser is an expert with the WEL - I'm sure he'll answer your questions as he has time.

A 'picture' is an optional WEL feature - you don't have to have one.  And many WEL customers, who, don't have the skills to put together a JPEG images, don't want to spend any time doing this or learning how to do it, or don't want to pay someone to do it form them, implement without a picture.  Numbers and labeling just go to a blank screen.  See http://www.welserver.com/WEL0052 , upper two-thirds, as an example.  Doesn't even have charts.

Power can be measured with an ammeter to actually measure amps and then use the WEL's arithmetic capabilities to calculate watts, and then accumulate watts for kWh.  While not as accurate as using a power transducer, it's a reasonable approximation, and, it's less expensive.
 
Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX (www.americaneei.com)
Example monitoring system: www.welserver.com/WEL0043
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20 Mar 2014 04:56 PM
http://welserver.com/WEL0761/

Above is a radiant and forced air combination as you describe it, not on our website yet.

Yes, it takes a while to get to know the ins and outs of the system. Building the site usually takes 4-6 hours, sometimes less.
Bill,
http://welserver.com/WEL0396/ has both an ampmeter and a watts meter (power transducer) installed for comparison. The ammeter solution is about 3% off. Marginal.....
www.buffalogeothermalheating.com
Calgary GeoUser is Offline
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20 Mar 2014 06:18 PM
Excellent, thanks for the info and the recommendation of the welserver! I have narrowed it down to either the welserver or myewise, does anybody have any knowledge of this product and how it compares to the welserver? Here is a link to a sample;

http://myewise.net/site.php?id=2982
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24 Mar 2014 10:28 PM
Posted By docjenser on 20 Mar 2014 04:56 PM

Bill,
http://welserver.com/WEL0396/ has both an ampmeter and a watts meter (power transducer) installed for comparison. The ammeter solution is about 3% off. Marginal.....

I agree a 3% difference is marginal.  So I looked at WEL0396.  Didn't see a line each on the DailyKWuse chart for ammeter versus watts meter.  Did I miss something?  Where's the data that shows it's a 3% difference?

Thanks.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX (www.americaneei.com)
Example monitoring system: www.welserver.com/WEL0043
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24 Mar 2014 10:41 PM
Posted By Calgary Geo on 20 Mar 2014 06:18 PM
Excellent, thanks for the info and the recommendation of the welserver! I have narrowed it down to either the welserver or myewise, does anybody have any knowledge of this product and how it compares to the welserver? Here is a link to a sample;

http://myewise.net/site.php?id=2982

Nice marketing ( http://www.myewise.net ).  Looks to be a little easier to set up.  Definitely more of a 'pay-to-use' model.  Does a lot of similar things to the WEL.  Couldn't find mention of data collection except at very high expense.  Not sure I'd be able to do Power Factor and other calculations, but, few people need advanced arithmetic capabilities.  Looks to have a good number of implementations.  Not an Internet Appliance.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX (www.americaneei.com)
Example monitoring system: www.welserver.com/WEL0043
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25 Mar 2014 12:15 AM
Posted By Bill Neukranz on 24 Mar 2014 10:28 PM
Posted By docjenser on 20 Mar 2014 04:56 PM

Bill,
http://welserver.com/WEL0396/ has both an ampmeter and a watts meter (power transducer) installed for comparison. The ammeter solution is about 3% off. Marginal.....

I agree a 3% difference is marginal.  So I looked at WEL0396.  Didn't see a line each on the DailyKWuse chart for ammeter versus watts meter.  Did I miss something?  Where's the data that shows it's a 3% difference?

Thanks.

Best regards,

Bill


On WEL0396, below the buffer tank graphic, it ready "wattsmeter current, daily and monthly" KWHs, and to the right of this, it says daily, monthly and yearly reading, which are the ampmeter....the monthly reading is 2.57% apart.
www.buffalogeothermalheating.com
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25 Mar 2014 08:15 AM
We were also intrigued with WEL technology (relatively low-cost, internet access to data, one-wire networking of sensors, appealing graphs) but found that the technology was difficult to apply and also lacked a searchable data base (unless upgraded to $20/mo) and email alerts (unless upgraded to a $60/mo subscription). We developed the GxTracker (www.groundenergy.com) using many of the same design concepts but tailored it specifically to the residential/light commercial GSHP installation with up to 3 heat pumps.

We focused on making our system easier to install, more accurate, and provide better access to trending metrics.
* External readable sensor IDs mapped to ROM ids in database,
* No programming required (at all),
* Plug and play remote data access to data. While WEL does everything locally, it requires that the homeowners router be set up with port forwarding to access the system. We found that many homeowners were uneasy with their geo installers opening up ports on their router. Our Gateway posts data through the firewall to our data center and is available through the web there. For the ethernet and powerline-adapter options, the Gateway is simply connected to power and internet, obtains an IP address from router, and begins posting data immediately -- no configuration. The WiFi model requires inputting the SSID and passphrase for local router.
* Splicing of cables onto a one-wire bus requires some practice and usually some troubleshooting, we've adopted the wiring convention of traditional phone lines so that simple phone lines and connectors can be snapped together to create data bus.
* We calibrate our temperature sensors (same DS18B20 chip that is used with WEL) to 0.1C to improve accuracy of btu calculations by a factor of 5. Uncalibrated DS18B20 sensors contribute a 25% error in btu calculations for most geo systems (Delta T ~8F). Calibrated sensors bring that deltaT component down to 5%.

Having the programming and searchable database on the back-end has some advantages in that any programming enhancements made for one site are available for all sites. The searchable database, both of the high resolution data and the daily summaries is very powerful in identifying trends and going back to look at operating states during different outdoor weather conditions.

Our most popular configuration measures amperage on the heat pump, auxiliary, and loop pump circuits using an current transducer and lists for $925 (inquire about installer discount). We also support the WattNode that can be configured to support up to three balanced circuits on a single device. As noted above, amperage gives a pretty accurate measure of kWh.

For variable flow systems, we mechanical pulse flow meters (use with caution, head drop can be significant) or vortex shedding flow meters can be used. We've also recently added a hot-water module that can be used to monitor geo or solar hot water systems.

As I'm sure you have seen with your eMonitor, having remote access to data can be very helpful in diagnosing and troubleshooting problems that may arise. Adding the geo-data makes it that much more powerful as you can easily both the building load and ground loop response to that load. While not available on our public sites, users see a load profile graph at the bottom of the Performance screen that show the geoexchange as a function of outdoor air temperature.

Good luck in finding a system that meets your needs.
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25 Mar 2014 11:08 AM
Posted By Ground Energy on 25 Mar 2014 08:15 AM

We were also intrigued with WEL technology (relatively low-cost, internet access to data, one-wire networking of sensors, appealing graphs) but found that the technology was difficult to apply and also lacked a searchable data base (unless upgraded to $20/mo) and email alerts (unless upgraded to a $60/mo subscription). We developed the GxTracker (www.groundenergy.com) using many of the same
 
I think the monthly charges noted above are overstated.

One text/email alert is included with one-time WEL purchase cost.  No one-time or monthly additional cost.  Alarm is a manual reset type.

For $50 one-time + $6/month: 10 advanced alarms (text/email).  Multiple and complex alarm conditions can be defined, and then these conditions are combined into an alarm event.  Automatic reset.

For $20/mo: Database Analysis system.  Eliminates tedious need for multiple monthly downloading of 60 second sample data and then doing 'off to the side' Excel spreadsheet analysis.  Database Analysis system captures live data and adds it to a searchable database for later display.  All data is processed for Minimum, Maximum, Average and Last for each hour, time-stamped, and saved in the database.

Custom graphs can be easily defined at any time.  The graphs can summarize data hourly, weekly, monthly and annually, including having independent left & right vertical axes, with auto or manual scaling.  The data can be based on historic days or specific time periods.  Text fonts, color and attributes can be specified.

For approximately $75 one-time, local storage (in addition to server storage) is possible for all data.

We focused on making our system easier to install, more accurate, and provide better access to trending metrics.
* External readable sensor IDs mapped to ROM ids in database,
* No programming required (at all),
* Plug and play remote data access to data. While WEL does everything locally, it requires that the homeowners router be set up with port forwarding to access the system.
 
This is not true and is a common misnomer with Internet Appliances, as is the WEL.  No messing with the router (i.e. port forwarding) is needed unless the customer wants to do WEL maintenance on a remote basis.  Full WEL data viewing, access, control and adjustment are possible anywhere worldwide via any browser without ever doing anything with the router.

We found that many homeowners were uneasy with their geo installers opening up ports on their router. Our Gateway posts data through the firewall to our data center and is available through the web there.
 
For the ethernet and powerline-adapter options, the Gateway is simply connected to power and internet, obtains an IP address from router, and begins posting data immediately -- no configuration. The WiFi model requires inputting the SSID and passphrase for local router.
* Splicing of cables onto a one-wire bus requires some practice and usually some troubleshooting, we've adopted the wiring convention of traditional phone lines so that simple phone lines and connectors can be snapped together to create data bus.

My experience with telephone line connector connections of sensors is that they are problematic at best.  Especially in a commercial environment.  Anything less than hard wired, wire-nutted connections are just not going to be ultra-reliable.

* We calibrate our temperature sensors (same DS18B20 chip that is used with WEL) to 0.1C to improve accuracy of btu calculations by a factor of 5. Uncalibrated DS18B20 sensors contribute a 25% error in btu calculations for most geo systems (Delta T ~8F). Calibrated sensors bring that deltaT component down to 5%.

The WEL turns on the DS18B20's standard option of 12 bit processing.  Thus 'off the shelf' DS18B20's with the WEL will measure temperatures from -10 degrees C to +85 degrees C at plus/minus 0.5 degrees C.  Maxim's DS18B20 data sheet doesn't show a higher accuracy that plus/minus 0.5 degrees C.  While you can 'bin select' to get a perceived 0.1 degrees C accuracy, as soon as it goes into the field, gets connected, and is powered up, it's no more accurate than plus/minus 0.5 degrees C.

Plus, the BTU calculation typically requires an air volume or a water volume measurement.  Calibrating a sensor down to plus/minus 0.1 degrees C isn't adding any accuracy when the other parts of the BTU calculation are probably plus/minus 10% at best.

Having the programming and searchable database on the back-end has some advantages in that any programming enhancements made for one site are available for all sites. The searchable database, both of the high resolution data and the daily summaries is very powerful in identifying trends and going back to look at operating states during different outdoor weather conditions.

Our most popular configuration measures amperage on the heat pump, auxiliary, and loop pump circuits using an current transducer
 
I think Docjenser has shown us that this is a very cost effective alternative to using power transducers.

and lists for $925 (inquire about installer discount). We also support the WattNode that can be configured to support up to three balanced circuits on a single device. As noted above, amperage gives a pretty accurate measure of kWh.

For variable flow systems, we mechanical pulse flow meters (use with caution, head drop can be significant) or vortex shedding flow meters can be used. We've also recently added a hot-water module that can be used to monitor geo or solar hot water systems.

As I'm sure you have seen with your eMonitor, having remote access to data can be very helpful in diagnosing and troubleshooting problems that may arise. Adding the geo-data makes it that much more powerful as you can easily both the building load and ground loop response to that load. While not available on our public sites, users see a load profile graph at the bottom of the Performance screen that show the geoexchange as a function of outdoor air temperature.

...


More good capabilities.  Hadn't heard of groundenergy.com until this posting.  Helpful to read up on another product offering in a similar market space.

Here is a WEL capabilities summary:

High performance system – includes:
 •Permanent Web site(s)
 •Real time display of values overlaid onto (a) custom image(s)
 •Charts & graphs updated in real time
 •Data logging to off-site location – data is backed up and access is secure
 •(optional) Local data logging to flash memory
 
No on-site computing equipment or s/w installations required.
 
WEL supports a lot of sensors (up to 150):
 •Supports wide variety of measurement areas: air (temperature, humidity, wind speed, C02, indoor air quality (in development)), electricity (power, energy, peak demand, power factor, reactive components, AC & DC voltage/current, negative (solar) energy flows), fluids (temperature, flow, pressure), gases (temperature, pressure), sunlight irradiance/insolation
 •Supports 5 sensor technologies: contact closure, ‘1-wire,’ pulse, and analog (4-20 ma / 0-10 V), and specialty
 •Multiple units can be combined (large projects, unusual wiring challenges)
 
Real time:
 •No processing time delays
 •Sampling can be set up as fast as every 60 seconds
 
Everything (measured values / calculated data, charts, logged data, remote administration) accessible anywhere via Web:
 •Screens operate quickly, with normal Internet response times, without delay
 •No Java processes (and associated delays) required for screen display
 
Accurate - 6 decimal point digits maintained internally
 
Zero monthly or annual recurring costs
 
Low purchase cost
 
Commercial quality and reliability; UL listed in all non-low voltage areas
 
Quick / easy to install
 
Advanced real time monitoring capabilities:
 •Measured values / calculated data displayable on custom pictorial form.
 •Powerful charting capabilities
 
Includes advanced arithmetic processing capabilities (makes ‘off-to-the-side’ summaries rarely needed):
 •Built in arithmetic computations: +, -, X, /, averaging, highs/lows, absolute values, SQRT, powers, Boolean logic
 •Built in integration computations for flows/volumes (kWh, gpm, CFM, solar insolation, run time, KBTU/hr, Degree-Days)
 •Built in sample/hold, moving avg, hi/lo filtering computations – significantly improves results analysis
 
Alarm output capability:
 •Value or computational result beyond specified limits can trigger email and/or text message
 •(optional) Alarm logic can include multiple / complex conditions
 •Max quantity 11 (10 are optional)
 
Remote administration / configuration / firmware update capable (including with security)
 
Integrates well with control systems – XML formatted and/or serial port data is available to ‘talk’ to separate systems
 
(optional) Advanced analysis capability of off-site database for ad-hoc historical analysis:
 •Eliminates need for complex spreadsheet analysis skills
 •Provides for complex ‘on-demand’ historical analysis with data summarized and charted on hourly, daily, weekly, monthly and/or annual basis
 •Two Y-axis and other advanced charting features provided


Hope all of this helps.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX (www.americaneei.com)
Example monitoring system: www.welserver.com/WEL0043
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25 Mar 2014 11:16 AM
Posted By docjenser on 25 Mar 2014 12:15 AM

On WEL0396, below the buffer tank graphic, it ready "wattsmeter current, daily and monthly" KWHs, and to the right of this, it says daily, monthly and yearly reading, which are the ampmeter....the monthly reading is 2.57% apart.


Thanks.  That's what I was looking for.  Nice job showing that it's at best (worst) a 3% accuracy subject.  Looks like I can use ammeters with most customers unless there's a 'revenue grade' accuracy requirement.

Do you use 0-10 V, 4-20 ma, or pulse output style ammeters?

Can you give to me a couple of model numbers / manufacturers that you currently use that are performing as you are illustrating?

Much appreciate the assistance.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX (www.americaneei.com)
Example monitoring system: www.welserver.com/WEL0043
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25 Mar 2014 03:41 PM
I think the monthly charges noted above are overstated.

Apologies for misstating monthly fees, the ones you list are correct. Working too quickly...

While you can 'bin select' to get a perceived 0.1 degrees C accuracy, as soon as it goes into the field, gets connected, and is powered up, it's no more accurate than plus/minus 0.5 degrees C.

Just a point of clarification about the DS18B20 sensors, their offsets from a standard can be measured and applied between power cycles. See Maxim Application Note 208 http://pdfserv.maximintegrated.com/en/an/app208.pdf.
Calibrating a sensor down to plus/minus 0.1 degrees C isn't adding any accuracy when the other parts of the BTU calculation are probably plus/minus 10% at best.

Errors in BTU measurements are additive (see OIML R-75 or EN1434), so reducing errors in deltaT does help to reduce overall error.

No argument that the WEL is a powerful tool and highly customizable. Our product sacrifices some of flexibility in exchange for ease-of-use.
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26 Mar 2014 01:51 AM
Posted By Ground Energy on 25 Mar 2014 08:15 AM
We were also intrigued with WEL technology (relatively low-cost, internet access to data, one-wire networking of sensors, appealing graphs) but found that the technology was difficult to apply and also lacked a searchable data base (unless upgraded to $20/mo) and email alerts (unless upgraded to a $60/mo subscription). We developed the GxTracker (www.groundenergy.com) using many of the same design concepts but tailored it specifically to the residential/light commercial GSHP installation with up to 3 heat pumps.

We focused on making our system easier to install, more accurate, and provide better access to trending metrics.
* External readable sensor IDs mapped to ROM ids in database,
* No programming required (at all),
* Plug and play remote data access to data. While WEL does everything locally, it requires that the homeowners router be set up with port forwarding to access the system. We found that many homeowners were uneasy with their geo installers opening up ports on their router. Our Gateway posts data through the firewall to our data center and is available through the web there. For the ethernet and powerline-adapter options, the Gateway is simply connected to power and internet, obtains an IP address from router, and begins posting data immediately -- no configuration. The WiFi model requires inputting the SSID and passphrase for local router.
* Splicing of cables onto a one-wire bus requires some practice and usually some troubleshooting, we've adopted the wiring convention of traditional phone lines so that simple phone lines and connectors can be snapped together to create data bus.
* We calibrate our temperature sensors (same DS18B20 chip that is used with WEL) to 0.1C to improve accuracy of btu calculations by a factor of 5. Uncalibrated DS18B20 sensors contribute a 25% error in btu calculations for most geo systems (Delta T ~8F). Calibrated sensors bring that deltaT component down to 5%.

Having the programming and searchable database on the back-end has some advantages in that any programming enhancements made for one site are available for all sites. The searchable database, both of the high resolution data and the daily summaries is very powerful in identifying trends and going back to look at operating states during different outdoor weather conditions.

Our most popular configuration measures amperage on the heat pump, auxiliary, and loop pump circuits using an current transducer and lists for $925 (inquire about installer discount). We also support the WattNode that can be configured to support up to three balanced circuits on a single device. As noted above, amperage gives a pretty accurate measure of kWh.

For variable flow systems, we mechanical pulse flow meters (use with caution, head drop can be significant) or vortex shedding flow meters can be used. We've also recently added a hot-water module that can be used to monitor geo or solar hot water systems.

As I'm sure you have seen with your eMonitor, having remote access to data can be very helpful in diagnosing and troubleshooting problems that may arise. Adding the geo-data makes it that much more powerful as you can easily both the building load and ground loop response to that load. While not available on our public sites, users see a load profile graph at the bottom of the Performance screen that show the geoexchange as a function of outdoor air temperature.

Good luck in finding a system that meets your needs.


Once you put them on pipes, you have to recalibrate them anyway, so what is the point to have them calibrated already. The sensors are highly accurate, but the way they have to mounted is not...
www.buffalogeothermalheating.com
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26 Mar 2014 01:57 AM
Posted By Bill Neukranz on 25 Mar 2014 11:16 AM
Posted By docjenser on 25 Mar 2014 12:15 AM

On WEL0396, below the buffer tank graphic, it ready "wattsmeter current, daily and monthly" KWHs, and to the right of this, it says daily, monthly and yearly reading, which are the ampmeter....the monthly reading is 2.57% apart.


Thanks.  That's what I was looking for.  Nice job showing that it's at best (worst) a 3% accuracy subject.  Looks like I can use ammeters with most customers unless there's a 'revenue grade' accuracy requirement.

Do you use 0-10 V, 4-20 ma, or pulse output style ammeters?

Can you give to me a couple of model numbers / manufacturers that you currently use that are performing as you are illustrating?

Much appreciate the assistance.

Best regards,

Bill


0-10V output, the WEL has 2 analog inputs for 0-10V. I use the snail sensor. 3502_0 - i-Snail-VC-50 AC Current Sensor 50Amp They are $30-40, much cheaper than the watts meter.Even the 3% can be calibrated.
www.buffalogeothermalheating.com
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26 Mar 2014 09:24 AM
Posted By docjenser on 26 Mar 2014 01:51 AM

...

Once you put them on pipes, you have to recalibrate them anyway, so what is the point to have them calibrated already. The sensors are highly accurate, but the way they have to mounted is not...

Agreed.  Environment and attachment technique more affect accuracy than anything else, in my experience.

For pipes, sensors that have thermal grease applied, are mechanically attached to the pipe (zip tie'd), with leads wrapped around the pipe a few times, and that have significant external wrapped insulation are the sensors that are going to be most accurate.  Many times I don't have to do anything with a many adjustment if I pay close attention to these 4 steps.

I believe this is true regardless of monitoring system being used.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX (www.americaneei.com)
Example monitoring system: www.welserver.com/WEL0043
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26 Mar 2014 09:57 AM
0-10V output, the WEL has 2 analog inputs for 0-10V. I use the snail sensor. 3502_0 - i-Snail-VC-50 AC Current Sensor 50Amp They are $30-40, much cheaper than the watts meter.Even the 3% can be calibrated.
Thanks.  I ordered one this morning.  Will put in on same wires going through my HVAC CT, in order to affirm 3% or less error.

Best regards,

Bill
Energy reduction & monitoring
American Energy Efficiencies, Inc - Dallas, TX (www.americaneei.com)
Example monitoring system: www.welserver.com/WEL0043
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27 Mar 2014 12:48 AM
Posted By Bill Neukranz on 26 Mar 2014 09:57 AM
0-10V output, the WEL has 2 analog inputs for 0-10V. I use the snail sensor. 3502_0 - i-Snail-VC-50 AC Current Sensor 50Amp They are $30-40, much cheaper than the watts meter.Even the 3% can be calibrated.
Thanks.  I ordered one this morning.  Will put in on same wires going through my HVAC CT, in order to affirm 3% or less error.

Best regards,

Bill


Sorry, I misspoke, it is 0-5 volts....
www.buffalogeothermalheating.com
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