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MNSide
New Member
Posts:4
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| 06 Feb 2009 11:18 AM |
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First-timer here, greetings all. I have installed just about every type of siding and there is one I have not because the research I have done {JS Hardi Bd} suggests that the home owner seems to be entirely responsible for the warranty and not JS Hardi. It's interesting looking at the posts on this forum seem to mostly contain comments about water intrusion, this is the most common problem with home construction and the most costly. In my opinion, why buy a product which is 1. labor intensive 2. water soluble 3. blind nailed {leaves bottom of panel loose or even floppy} 4. butt joints open {you can see the house wrap underneath} 5. not a closed system {butt joints, bottom lap joints can open with wind shearing up walls} 6. installation, JS Hardi web-site, the first thing they mention is proper handling of cutting tools, use electric tools with vacuum system, cut with wind blowing away from installer, this put up a RED FLAG for health reasons! On a prospective Bid Project {multile condominium re-side} A homeowner expressed their concerns about the issues of the fibers released from cutting the JS Hardi board because many subs use the electric saws to cut because it is less time consuming.. Also JS Hardi is in a multi-million dollar law suit in their Australian site for worker related health issues. I work with my son and my brother and felt the health issue was something to consider. There are other products to consider, many times prospective clients did choose JS Hardi solely for the fact they could use the color of choice not available in other products. MNSide |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4324
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| 06 Feb 2009 02:58 PM |
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silica dust, which is common in many cement based products, you are supposed to wear a mask , but most don't.
Like most construction workers are supposed to wear safety goggles, ear protection, long pants, safety harnesses and so on and so forth , but most don't.
PT lumber had the same hazard warnings when is contained arsenic, but few wore masks.
Working around construction is dangerous business, workers need to take the time to read the labels and protect themselves.
When do people take responsibilty for their own actions or lack there of? |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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MNSide
New Member
Posts:4
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| 06 Feb 2009 05:28 PM |
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I'm sure many installers do become careless, we decided to be safe and avoid the cementboard products completely. There are safer and better products that are not problematic to "capillary suction" caused by expansion and contraction. Hardie roofing products "Hardie Shake, Hardie Slate" alledgedly are no longer on the market because of this. Pending Lawsuits. Better Safe Than Sorry, I can live with this motto! |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4324
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| 06 Feb 2009 06:26 PM |
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MNside;
Don't get me wrong, I think Hardie is a very over-rated material, especially when used as a skin in a sip for a structural component. All you have to do is look at the stuff and crumbles. You are also right on about the capillary suction, it happens in just hours to degrade the board.
When it comes to health issues with the hardie and other materials we tend to throw away the instructions and warning tags and start using the product ( me included) |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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MNSide
New Member
Posts:4
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| 06 Feb 2009 07:15 PM |
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Chris, unfortunately we had to bite the bullet when we decided not to sell and install JH because alot of people here in and around the Mpls. and south metro area have had it installed because of frequent Spring and Summer hail. I haven't seen hail damage to JH but have seen water damage on lower course-lines by grade. I wonder if it will become a problem like "masonite" I certainly hope not, time will tell. Have a good day Chris. MNSide |
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Summers
New Member
Posts:40
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| 06 Feb 2009 07:53 PM |
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Posted By Summers on 10/15/2008 1:18 PM
All very good comments relating to the Hardi product. Hardi carries a 50 year warranty on the product that is transferable, HOWEVER in almost every question /comment posted thus far I see topics that appear to be items that would Void a claim to Hardi !
NER - 405 is the Bible when it comes to an install of this product and the first thing a Hardi representative will refer to if a warranty question comes up. This report is referenced in Hardi printed material, but unless you download the eighty or so pages you don't really develop an appreciation of how demanding this specification really is. Charts on wind resistance give a new meaning to the engineering that has gone into the proper install of the product.
Most contractors and homeowners will say " Oh Yeh, I saw that ", but you must realize your dealing with a fiber and cement material that does not like moisture. Not only will the material fail if not installed in accordance with NER - 405 and the Hardi Specifications -- You may void the warranty!
I use Stablecrete on a Hardi install at all cuts, joints or anywhere there is a possibility of high amounts of water/moisture accumulation. It reacts with the Alkali found in the cement to waterproof the material. It also gives a superior bond for any coating you will want. In the case where you have water splashing up onto a painted Hardi board, it may be that this moisture is causing the Alkali in the cement to migrate out to the surface of the board, collect on the backside of your coating causing it to Burn Off.
Wonderful, Expensive Product and a company to back it up, but it hates water ! Then again so does wood !
Glenn Sounds like we're beating this dead dog to death! Unfortunate part is, that your Hardi rep. or a distributor,doesn't have or will not provide information that has been posted on this thread. Think of it like this : If ANY manufacturer, told the "whole truth and nothing but the truth", how much product would they sell? In the case of Hardi, in particular; would you buy or install it after you spent 2 or 3 hours comprehending what NER 405 says, knowing full well ANY warranty claim would refer to it? Try an install in a high speed wind area and take a good look at the wind speed tables as they relate to attachment requirements! A real unfortunate part of that is Architects and some Engineers, even with an understanding of the attach requirements, do not stand in a job to observe every nail driven. If it was easy, anyone could do it! Glenn |
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| The Cost Effective Answer to Concrete Corrosion |
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quailrunner
New Member
Posts:22
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| 08 Feb 2009 02:07 PM |
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I have used Hardi Soffit and Hardi Panel (8x4) sheets as siding. These products are excellent, and repel insects (carpenter bees) and animals (squirrels and woodpeckers) in situations where wood does not . The soffit panels are very easy to put up with a helper, but not without; they sag a lot. Also, use of a nail gun is OK, but should be backed up with screws or wide-head nails; the material can pull through if only a nail gun is used. When you cut the material, it is (as mentioned above) necessary to paint the cut edge.
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michael d
New Member
Posts:4
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| 13 Feb 2009 11:20 AM |
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i worked for james hardie warranty division for 3 years. i would not recommend the product even to my enemy. some of the cons include that the product is not painted on all sided so that anything that is left exposed will delaminate. if you live in a rainy,snowy,icy and high humidity area this product is not for you. i went from east coast to the west coast replacing,repairing and following weather specified codes to keeping the product to last longer.this product will not hold up to the 50yr warranty. on the average homes ,resorts,hospitals that have had this product have had to replace as little as 10%to as high as 100% of hardie products.i would recommend sticking with a weather resistant wood and follow any precedures with that product. overall james hardie will have a crew come repair,replace and install deteriorating siding.so if you dont mind someone working on your home every 2 to 5 years then go with this product. my money and time would not be wasted on this product. |
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michael d
New Member
Posts:4
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| 13 Feb 2009 11:22 AM |
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there is a special gun that is used that shoots something similiar to a roofing nail to hold the product. if you have any questions let me know |
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Summers
New Member
Posts:40
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| 13 Feb 2009 01:21 PM |
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Michael,
Two questions for you: 1. Have you had experiences you can share about wind speed requirements/ warranty claims in Hurricane prone areas where we have to meet a 130 MPH rating? 2 Are you in the witness protection program now?
Glenn |
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| The Cost Effective Answer to Concrete Corrosion |
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michael d
New Member
Posts:4
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| 19 Feb 2009 09:20 AM |
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in response to your 2 questions. one i did not install hardie products south of kentucky. my responsibility was anything north of that state dealing in water,ice,and snow damage. what i have heard was that in the state of florida that it was one of the principle products used due to the area and its high frequencies of hurricanes. a material that is porous and can be snapped with a minumum of 20p of force i would leave that up to you if you so choose to. if i were looking for a product outside of wood it would have to be stone or brick.now the answer to your second question no im not in the witness protection program due to my first ammendment rights any an all of my statements are my personal opinions. |
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want to build
New Member
Posts:92
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| 07 Mar 2009 12:04 AM |
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I just found this link about installing Hardie siding:
http://www.100khouse.com/2009/02/25/home-slicker-instant-rainscreen-house-wrap/
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greentree
Advanced Member
Posts:587
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| 09 Mar 2009 07:57 PM |
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Posted By MNSide on 02/06/2009 11:18 AM
4. butt joints open {you can see the house wrap underneath}
I believe you need to flash the butt joints, if you see housewrap through a butt joint I think you got a lousy install. I've actually replaced more than I've put on, seems the main problems are not priming/painting cuts and at least for prefinished, losing its finish because of water issues related to other failures (lack of kickouts, poor water table design, no drip caps, ect.) Does anyone know if its compatible with aluminum flashing or coil stock, I thought it wasn't. |
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michael d
New Member
Posts:4
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| 09 Mar 2009 09:36 PM |
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unless hardie has changed its specs in the last 6 months we always used coil stock and bent what we needed.its also recommended in areas to cover over step flashing where hardie siding would come in contact with leaving 1 1/2 to 2 inches off the roof.also included in the specs is kickout flashing left on the end of a rake to divert water aswell. |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4324
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| 10 Mar 2009 05:26 AM |
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Posted By want to build on 03/07/2009 12:04 AM
I just found this link about installing Hardie siding: http://www.100khouse.com/2009/02/25/home-slicker-instant-rainscreen-house-wrap/ The house as shown will leak .........if thats the finished wrap job |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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brankulo
New Member
Posts:12
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| 10 Mar 2009 08:11 PM |
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why do you think so? have you heard of open joint rain screen systems? |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4324
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| 10 Mar 2009 08:19 PM |
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Posted By brankulo on 03/10/2009 8:11 PM
why do you think so? have you heard of open joint rain screen systems? If that is the finished wrap; the area where the felt paper meets the rain screen is running behind the rain screen, therefore is open at the top. So any infiltration above that point will allow water to run behind the rainscreen. It is a common mistake also made with improperly applied paper backed lath |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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brankulo
New Member
Posts:12
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| 10 Mar 2009 08:27 PM |
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i see what you are saying, i thought they were applying green lining all the way to the top. |
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chad
New Member
Posts:8
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| 21 Oct 2009 07:13 PM |
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This is my house.
A. We caulked the vertical seams after this and installed Z-flashing at horizontal joints as per the manufacturers instructions.
B. The top is capped to prevent water from entering at that point or getting behind the tar paper. The bottom is also left open to drain any water that gets into the rainscreen.
Having said this, I just found this post again while trying to determine if we should repeat this application. We are building a similar facade in our next project and looking to a Minerit HD (High Density Fiber Cement) panel that is much more durable and capable of being installed with an open joint rainscreen detail, similar to a commercial application. Caulking is no fun and does not turn out well aesthetically...
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| Postgreen - Developers of the 100K House and a line of affordably built Postgreen Homes utilizing SIPs and the Passive House & LEED standards |
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nolanarcher
New Member
Posts:19
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| 19 Jul 2010 01:33 PM |
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So any tips for painting MiraTEC, and/or installing it with Hardi-Plank? |
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