Posted By Seneca Taylor on 05/19/2009 1:14 PM
I wanted to start the discussion of the generators.I wanted to know what anyone else knew about it if I was going to invest time and energy into maybe becoming a part of it.I just wanted to see what the experts thought.Thats all.I don't know if you guys are experts but it seemed to sure spark interesting conversation.
There is a website that has information.www.futureofwater.net.Check it out for yourselves and continue the discussion.Good thread!
Snake oil, anyone?
http://www.futureofwater.net/cost_analyst.php
They show the power consumption to be the same as a standard cooler (it simply can't be true, unless you keep your office/home at 90% RH or something), but worse, the power use estimate is the same whether you enter 4 gallons per month or 400,000 gallons per month into their calculator.
(If I can truly get 400,000 gallons of water for $3 worth of power, I'm there! :-) )
You can't cheat the second law of thermodynamics- it WILL take more energy to extract water from air than simply chilling water. (And it will certainly take a lot more energy to extract 400,000gallons vs. 4.)
Read the fine print:
http://www.futureofwater.net/commercial_03.php
"Performance based on entering air conditions of 85F(29C) and 70% RH."
In other words to get that seemingly excellent 17gallons/kwh performance you have to be in a tropical swamp. Operating indoors, at indoor temps, that level of humidity at would be the same as 100RH @ 77F (25C):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/05/PsychrometricChart-SeaLevel-SI.jpg
At those humidity levels you can literally squeegee the water off the walls & windows at 75F.
You can bet it's a heluva lot less efficient at typical 30-60% RH @ 68-72F types of indoor humidity/temperature levels (so abysmally low that they probably won't publish that data when trying to sell it as a water-generator.) The less snake-oil advertisers of these products give estimates on the order of ~2kwh/gallon, (which is 0.5gal/kwh, not 17gal/kwh.)
The only way any of these could qualify for any type of "green" status would be the dessicant-wheel enhanced versions in applications where the primary use is either latent-load (dehumidification) or full-on air conditioning, since it uses the condensate as drinking water rather than simply disposing of it. (The dessicant wheel raises the coefficient of performance sgnificantly in very high latent-load conditions such as 70%RH @ 85F). The rest is marketing BS.
What this ISN'T, is a green & cost effective way to get potable water. The drier your outdoor air, the less efficient it is- don't take one of these into the desert without a cup & sheet of plastic as "Plan-B" unless you can fit a small nuke in your backpack.
Rio: If your outdoor dewpoints regularly get above 70F for several hours/days at a time there may be
some rationale to this approach as an emergency water source, but not at all if the dewpoints rarely break 60F. You can proably find weather history data to tell if it's worth considering for any particular site. (There's a reason nobody uses PV to run compressor-based air conditioning... ) It'll never beat the system-performance of a solar still though (it's at least a full order of magnitude behind.)