New home build and confused
Last Post 08 Jul 2012 12:41 AM by ONEVO. 106 Replies.
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ICFHybridUser is Offline
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07 Jan 2012 09:17 AM
Unless it is forced upon them OR it saves them $$$$, they usually don't care about it.
Exactly. That is why I am acting as the GC on my custom build.

Generally speaking, it is a choice of arguing with your GC or arguing with the subs about issues. What I have found is that GC's have NO interest in Green Building. In most cases, they don't intend to employ Green methods and they aren't interested unless it saves money or time on their future projects. The Subs have had a bit more curiosity about new/green methods. Probably because they perceive that it might make them more "hireable" in the future.

What is really surprising is the number of GCs who will stop by and volunteer all the things they DON'T do on their builds (waterproofing, footing drainage, sealing, etc.), even IF it is on the plans or required. It makes you even happier that you didn't hire them.
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07 Jan 2012 12:21 PM
Posted By ICFHybrid on 07 Jan 2012 09:17 AM

Exactly. That is why I am acting as the GC on my custom build.


I could never be my own GC because I don't have enough experience in the field to deal with everything that comes at you. It's above my "pay grade".
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07 Jan 2012 12:59 PM
How about a "Construction Manager"? They handle the business items, many of which help forestall issues in the field. Leaves you free to make sure the build comes out the way you want it. And, they are a pretty good resource for questions that arise.
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07 Jan 2012 10:18 PM
lbear and anybody else....I still don't see  how to put the ducts in the inside walls. That web site you posted lbear, it shows the main trunk going down the middle of the house. Where does that get hidden? Also, it shows the main line with extensions going into each room. HVAC contractors never put the vents on the inside walls, always above a window or an outside door. My visual is seeing boxes on the sides of the walls at the ceiling edge covering up all this duct work all over the house. What I'm I missing?  The inside roof consists of sheetrock, ceiling trusses, insulation. The walls are 2x4. Where would all these ducts run??
AltonUser is Offline
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07 Jan 2012 10:52 PM

Robinnc,

Are you asking a question about how ducts are installed inside a wall or if the supply vents will be located near an inside wall.  The only ducts that I know that ever get installed inside a wall is the high pressure type that consists of very small lines.  But most of the time these small lines are not in the walls.  They are usually in the ceiling about 18" out from the exterior wall.

Some HVAC installers will install supply vents in a room near the inside walls if the house is super-insulated and the rooms are not too large.  I agree, most HVAC installers will insist on supplying air to the exterior walls by placing supply vents under or over windows, etc.

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07 Jan 2012 11:20 PM
Posted By Alton on 07 Jan 2012 10:52 PM

Robinnc,

Are you asking a question about how ducts are installed inside a wall or if the supply vents will be located near an inside wall.  The only ducts that I know that ever get installed inside a wall is the high pressure type that consists of very small lines.  But most of the time these small lines are not in the walls.  They are usually in the ceiling about 18" out from the exterior wall.

Some HVAC installers will install supply vents in a room near the inside walls if the house is super-insulated and the rooms are not too large.  I agree, most HVAC installers will insist on supplying air to the exterior walls by placing supply vents under or over windows, etc.


Alton, I've been walking around in my house over the last 2 days trying to see where these ducts would go unseen. I can't see anywhere they could go. You're right about the super insulated and smaller rooms would probably not need the vents on the outside walls. My house is on a slab so sealed crawl space is out of the question. I can see where someone had a ranch and sealed crawl space(which is very uncommon) would be easy to have the duct work in a condition space. Just can't see how the duct work would be invisible in a conventional house?
I see you work at Auburn? My wife's brother works there also.
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08 Jan 2012 08:17 AM
Robinnc,

Typically, the ducts are installed in the attic of a one-storey home built on a slab.  Of course, the best situation is that the attic be sealed and insulated.  If the attic is not sealed and insulated, then I think spraying the ducts with closed cell foam would be almost as good.  Consider wrapping the ducts with 6 mil vinyl before spraying just in case repairs every need to be made.

Retrofitting a two-storey home on a slab can be a difficult and messy job if ducts are used.

One way to condition a home without a space for ducts is to install a ductless system such as Fujitsu, Mitsubishi, Daikin, LG.  Space for small refrigerant lines can usually be found in the ceiling or wall.  Fan/coils mounted on the exterior walls can have the condensate piped directly to the exterior.  Some brands with ceiling mounts will require a very small pump to lift the condensate about 18" so it will drain to the exterior.

I retired from teaching in the School of Architecture at Auburn in 2004.  My wife retired from Auburn at the end of last year from Information Technology.  Now I have to learn to share my office in our home.  Fortunately, we have two computers and two printers and one scanner to be shared.  Between the two of us, we know a lot of people at the university.  My wife and I have helped many people while in our careers at Auburn.  If your brother has been at Auburn very long, then we may also know him.  What department is he in?  Personal things like this can be sent to my e-mail address.  That would also keep us from hijacking this thread.
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jonrUser is Offline
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08 Jan 2012 12:27 PM
Return ducts in interior walls are common. I'm looking at a few right now.

> Of course, the best situation is that the attic be sealed and insulated

IMO, perhaps not the entire attic area, but the area where the ducts are should be fully insulated and vented to the interior. Special truss designs (think attic truss with very small attic(s)) could facilitate this.

What you don't want:
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08 Jan 2012 12:33 PM
Posted By jonr on 08 Jan 2012 12:27 PM
Return ducts in interior walls are common. I'm looking at a few right now.

> Of course, the best situation is that the attic be sealed and insulated

IMO, perhaps not the entire attic, but the area where the ducts are should be fully insulated and vented to the interior.

That was one thing I wondered about with the ducting inside. We are meeting with the builder at 1 and will see what he can up with and can get in our budget.
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08 Jan 2012 01:48 PM
What about burying uninsulated ducting in the attic ceiling insulation? Is that allowed?

With values of R-49 in the coldest locales, the ducts would be well buried where they ran parallel with the trusses and runs that were perpendicular could cross over where the roof is low and one could just plan to fill up the cavity there, like a chase.
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08 Jan 2012 03:01 PM
I have buried ducts in cellulose insulation but they were wrapped with aluminum foil fiberglass bat insulation.  I would be afraid that condensation could happen if the ducts were not wrapped before burying and the cellulose could get wet and lose its effectiveness.
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08 Jan 2012 04:30 PM
Looks like we will be building with 2x6 with r19 batts with thermo ply and 1" foam board on the exterior. This is what fits my budget. The ac unit will be in a closet in the conditioned space. Still working on getting the ducts in the interior.
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08 Jan 2012 07:33 PM
It is time for architects to start drawing utility chases into homes.

Commercial buildings already have shafts and, in some cases, entire floors or half floors devoted to duct and utilities.

I've seen a number of new green homes recently in which running the utilities properly was a real problem.

  Are any of you archies aware of any movement in this direction?
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08 Jan 2012 08:11 PM
As an architect I can tell you that any decent architect will plan for mechanical equipment space and distribution runs (whether that's pipe of duct) from day one. I will agree that not all architects are on board with keeping all the ducts within the conditioned space.

One issue is that very few house designs have an architect on board from day one.

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08 Jan 2012 08:51 PM
As an architect I can tell you that any decent architect will plan for mechanical equipment space and distribution runs (whether that's pipe of duct) from day one
Okay, that's a bit confusing because I've just looked at three green homes (including mine) all conceived and drawn by award-winning architects and all required some real gymnastics to run utilities, including the addition of interior chases and soffits. All those big beams they like stopped you wherever you wanted to go. It's also complicated by not wanting to violate the thermal envelope in a "Green" home.
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08 Jan 2012 10:45 PM
My experience has been that no thought is given to installing HVAC ducts until the house is almost completely framed.  I have been asked to design utility space for only one home.  Builders are so used to installing ducts in an unisulated attic or in the crawl space that they see no need to ask for a drawing showing how the large ducts will be installed.  I have seen several homes that had to give up some closet space for a large return duct.
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08 Jan 2012 11:24 PM
Jonr.....that's exactly what my attic looks like.....
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09 Jan 2012 12:32 AM
The ac unit will be in a closet in the conditioned space.
Are you worried about noise at all?
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09 Jan 2012 01:42 AM
Posted By ICFHybrid on 09 Jan 2012 12:32 AM
The ac unit will be in a closet in the conditioned space.
Are you worried about noise at all?

No. If you look at the layout it will be where the utility room is. Since the stairs are gone we have room for it there.
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09 Jan 2012 09:09 AM
Posted By Alton on 08 Jan 2012 08:17 AM
Robinnc,

If the attic is not sealed and insulated, then I think spraying the ducts with closed cell foam would be almost as good. 
Manual D and municipal codes have very specific requirements for duct insulation. One would have to be careful their spray on foam met flame spread requirements et al.
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