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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:1491
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| 15 May 2012 09:54 AM |
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Posted By lzerarc on 15 May 2012 09:01 AM
We have done it both ways. ERV/HRV pulls from the bathrooms and kitchen and replaces in the bedrooms and living. However some designers do not like pulling the really moist air through the ERV/HRV and prefer to still use a bath fan.
Even with a central system, we still prefer to pipe the ERV/HRV separate and not use the ductwork from the central system. It makes the ERV/HRV more efficient and the furnace fan does not have to run when the ERV is as well.
Also I did not know Mitsubishi H2 units were available in a 2 ton application. I thought it was just 1 ton and 3/4 ton for the single head units, and then a 3 ton unit with twinable heads.
Do you install these systems? What is the typical pipe diameter of these pulls? |
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lzerarc
Basic Member
Posts:399
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| 15 May 2012 12:14 PM |
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I do not install, rather part of the architectural design team on projects. They have used 4-6" pvc hard piping before, as well as 4, 5 and 6" round metal ducting. Typically on HRVs they have been insulating the supply and return lines depending on their location within the enclosure. |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:1491
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| 16 May 2012 05:56 AM |
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What I have been told is that with an ERV setup it would eliminate the need for separate bathroom vent fans. As the forced air system, tied with the ERV, would utilize the main supply and return lines as the ERV lines.
I prefer to NOT have to poke holes in my roof and run bathroom vents. That method seems "archaic" to me, there has to be a better way to remove humid and stale air from those areas, and an ERV setup would meet that need.
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:3360
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| 16 May 2012 06:40 AM |
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Posted By lzerarc on 15 May 2012 12:14 PM
I do not install, rather part of the architectural design team on projects. They have used 4-6" pvc hard piping before, as well as 4, 5 and 6" round metal ducting. Typically on HRVs they have been insulating the supply and return lines depending on their location within the enclosure.
Insulated flex duct works well |
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Chris Kavala
info@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:3360
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| 16 May 2012 06:43 AM |
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Posted By Lbear on 16 May 2012 05:56 AM
What I have been told is that with an ERV setup it would eliminate the need for separate bathroom vent fans. As the forced air system, tied with the ERV, would utilize the main supply and return lines as the ERV lines.
I prefer to NOT have to poke holes in my roof and run bathroom vents. That method seems "archaic" to me, there has to be a better way to remove humid and stale air from those areas, and an ERV setup would meet that need.
You cannot use the HVAC supply and return ducts for the ERV, bathrooms do not have cold air returns |
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Chris Kavala
info@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:1758
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| 16 May 2012 08:32 AM |
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Posted By Lbear on 16 May 2012 05:56 AM
. . .
I prefer to NOT have to poke holes in my roof and run bathroom vents. That method seems "archaic" to me, there has to be a better way to remove humid and stale air from those areas, and an ERV setup would meet that need.
Lbear, I understand that you want to avoid poking holes through the roof when ventilating. Do you plan to avoid holes in the roof by not using plumbing vent stacks? If the home has a ventilated attic, air admitance valves such as Studor might be used for most plumbing fixtures. |
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| Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu, 334 826-3979 |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:2128
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| 16 May 2012 08:51 AM |
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What I have been told is that with an ERV setup it would eliminate the need for separate bathroom vent fans. As the forced air system, tied with the ERV, would utilize the main supply and return lines as the ERV lines. These statements appear to be somewhat confused. The air removed from bathrooms and kitchens needs to be exhausted, not just recirculated. The reason is that it contains moisture and odors. You can exhaust it with plain old bathroom fans or with an HRV/ERV system by combining the returns, and extracting the heat before exhausting, but returning it to the furnace wouldn't meet the requirements to exhaust it. Yes, an HRV/ERV system eliminates the requirement for separate bathroom fans, but the air removed must be exhausted. It can't be sent back to the furnace. |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:3360
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| 16 May 2012 01:34 PM |
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Lbear;
range hoods, bath vents, dryer vents can usually be side wall vented thru the exterior walls, which is what we do if possible. As far as plumbing vents, most codes only require that there be one vent stack to the outside and we try to tie together inside to make just one penetration, you can also side vent plumbing vent (UGLY) and use Studor vents and / or island drains to eliminate dry venting |
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Chris Kavala
info@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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MikeSolar
Basic Member
Posts:342
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| 16 May 2012 01:44 PM |
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Posted By cmkavala on 16 May 2012 01:34 PM
Lbear;
range hoods, bath vents, dryer vents can usually be side wall vented thru the exterior walls, which is what we do if possible. As far as plumbing vents, most codes only require that there be one vent stack to the outside and we try to tie together inside to make just one penetration, you can also side vent plumbing vent (UGLY) and use Studor vents and / or island drains to eliminate dry venting
There is high value heat being lost from bathroom fans. Why would you not put it through the HRV? It is commonplace and there are timed controls for it. |
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| www.BossSolar.com |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:1491
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| 16 May 2012 04:46 PM |
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Posted By MikeSolar on 16 May 2012 01:44 PM
There is high value heat being lost from bathroom fans. Why would you not put it through the HRV? It is commonplace and there are timed controls for it.
I will eliminate the bathroom vents and just use the ERV to do the job. Typical bathroom vents are just holes in the roof that are constantly leaking hot or cold air. That is why I am going to have an ERV setup. |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:1491
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| 16 May 2012 05:20 PM |
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Posted By cmkavala on 16 May 2012 01:34 PM
Lbear;
range hoods, bath vents, dryer vents can usually be side wall vented thru the exterior walls, which is what we do if possible. As far as plumbing vents, most codes only require that there be one vent stack to the outside and we try to tie together inside to make just one penetration, you can also side vent plumbing vent (UGLY) and use Studor vents and / or island drains to eliminate dry venting
Do those Studor plumbing vents really work as good as open roof vents? |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:1758
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| 16 May 2012 05:23 PM |
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In my area I understand that a bathroom has to have either a window or power vent to meet code. It might be a good idea to check with the local code official to see what is required for ventilation of residential bathrooms. |
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| Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu, 334 826-3979 |
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Liebler
Basic Member
Posts:226
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| 16 May 2012 05:29 PM |
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FWIW Panasonic makes a very small ERV/bathroom vent fan. it is 50 CFM and requires 2 ea 4" lines to the outside, one for supply one for exhaust. It costs about $300.
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:3360
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| 16 May 2012 05:48 PM |
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Posted By Lbear on 16 May 2012 05:20 PM
Posted By cmkavala on 16 May 2012 01:34 PM
Lbear;
range hoods, bath vents, dryer vents can usually be side wall vented thru the exterior walls, which is what we do if possible. As far as plumbing vents, most codes only require that there be one vent stack to the outside and we try to tie together inside to make just one penetration, you can also side vent plumbing vent (UGLY) and use Studor vents and / or island drains to eliminate dry venting
Do those Studor plumbing vents really work as good as open roof vents?
I have had them in my house for 11 years with zero problems |
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Chris Kavala
info@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:3360
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| 16 May 2012 05:52 PM |
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Posted By Alton on 16 May 2012 05:23 PM
In my area I understand that a bathroom has to have either a window or power vent to meet code. It might be a good idea to check with the local code official to see what is required for ventilation of residential bathrooms.
Alton;
used to be that way here too, but the codes changed and mechanical ventilation is mandatory, window or not. And a good idea with tighter construction, in the south who opens their window in August when taking a shower, or up north in January? |
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Chris Kavala
info@southernsips dot com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:1491
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| 16 May 2012 07:50 PM |
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Posted By cmkavala on 16 May 2012 05:48 PM
Do those Studor plumbing vents really work as good as open roof vents?
I have had them in my house for 11 years with zero problems
You've had the STUDOR vents? If so, does your homes plumbing system not even have one roof vent? |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:3360
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| 16 May 2012 09:29 PM |
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Posted By Lbear on 16 May 2012 07:50 PM
Posted By cmkavala on 16 May 2012 05:48 PM
Do those Studor plumbing vents really work as good as open roof vents?
I have had them in my house for 11 years with zero problems
You've had the STUDOR vents? If so, does your homes plumbing system not even have one roof vent?
Lbear;
Studor vents don't completeley eliminate all roof vents, most codes require 1, what they do is elininate multiple penetrations and vent stack runs, I have a total of 4 in my house and including one in my office addition, the office has no roof penetrations at all since it ties to the house sewer
All my bath fans vent to the gable end, ERV intake and exhaust vents to gable end. Electric service is underground to eliminate weatherhead mast. |
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Chris Kavala
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:1491
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| 18 May 2012 08:58 PM |
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Posted By ICFHybrid on 14 May 2012 03:01 PM
Seems like the most bang for the buck to me in an area without access to natural gas. Does that mean no propane available either, or does the price of propane point to electric resistance heat?
As I mentioned before about my dislike of propane tanks sitting next to homes in rural spots. Case-in-point, the Arizona wildfire that is currently burning and has burned 10,000 acres. It started as a house fire but it became an out of control forest fire DUE to the propane tank exploding and sending a fireball and flames to the surround forest. Fire fighters are concerned when fighting rural forest fires because of the propane gas tanks. When they blow, it is like a bomb going off and it fuels the fire. |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:2128
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| 19 May 2012 09:25 AM |
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As I mentioned before about my dislike of propane tanks sitting next to homes in rural spots You are responding to a comment I made to Kenora. He lives in the Great White North. Any number of things start wildfires, including vehicles. There is no reason to fear them. Homeowners have a choice when it comes to siting propane tanks. Code limits the proximity to houses, and presumably, other burnables, but you canput them as far away as you want. Placing the propane tank in an underground vault is a solution to the fears of wildfire, too. |
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joe.ami
Veteran Member
Posts:3576
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| 30 May 2012 11:28 AM |
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I know bringing up code often makes eyes roll around here, but do not presume schedule 40 pipe is approved for use as a duct in your AO untill you discuss with local code officials. Also do not suppose that minisplits satisfy code or bank (lender requirements) of central heating systems.
One can put electric baseboards in every room of the home and use a few minisplits as the primary system, but eleiminating ducts or radiation (infloor or baseboards) completely is not going to fly in areas with educated code inspectors.
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| Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort! |
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