I live on the border of west dundee, sleepy hallow, algonquin, techniquely it's carpentersville.  I have to go, I'll be back.

Paula

Yikes - I used blueskin as our damp-proof membrane... thought it was overkill in addition to the ICF foam, but my contractor advised me to use it, and glad I did to avoid leak issues like yours... see it below;
http://www.icfbasement.org/

Paula,

I would agree with Dave at Walltech. You have not mentioned the brand of ICF that you used. We have seen this problem on numerous basements built with a particular brand of ICF's and this problem can be compounded by the use of peel and stick membrane below grade or any type of spray applied coatings that can create a diaphram configuration. What I mean by this is that once water gets behind these membranes, hydrostatic pressure forces the water through the path of least resistance. This could be holes, voids, wall cracks, ties, or rod holes. Applying a dimpled membrane with air gap technology can solve this problem.


Stacking one block @ a time!

An example of an air-gap system is Platon. http://www.certainteed.com/products/foundations/foundations-drainage/311508 Download the brochure to see how it works. There are other similar products out there too.
You can buy Platon or order it through any Menards building supply store. I also have plenty in stock for your project and would deliver it for below their price as I'm near you. It would require full excavation, which I don't do. Following up on previous discussion, I don't see how any particular brand of ICF wall would be more likely to leak than another. You pour concrete, it gets hard, cracks, and leaks. The foam walls won't stop leaks, they just make it almost impossible to find the leaks. That was my expert testimony at a trial where the buyer of a leaky ICF home sued the seller and won. Platon is cheap and easy to install and quite effectively makes is almost impossible for the basement walls to leak.

Frog,

What brand? What in the design might cause that brand to leak?

ICFconstruction,

I do not feel that this is the forum to be calling out specific brands. When it comes to water migration, installation can possibly be the culprit. Water, when aided by pressure, will take the path of least resistence. When choosing a brand of icf, look at how the forms interlock with each other. Brands that have created a water stop, or areas were the water must travel a complex course, are less likely to leak . Forms with simple and smooth connections may be more susceptable to water migration. Expert Jerome's statement that "The foam walls won't stop leaks, they just make it almost impossible to find the leak," needs to review some of the manufacturers that have designed their systems to perform as a drainage system. This is a major difference between brands. Therefore, it is suprising to read, "I don't see how any particular brand of ICF wall would be more likely to leak than another." Damp proofing or water proofing is usually a requirement of your building code. Tie design also plays a major factor in allowing water to move through the wall, and some manufacturers do a better job than others. Ties typically go through the poured section of the wall and into the foam insulation on each side of the concrete wall. These ties are not made of concrete, so they expand and contract at a different coeiffient than the concrete wall. If water has reached a tie and the design of the tie does not have a cappilary break, the area can leak because of pressure differential from backfill to basement interior. Most of what has been described is for basement applications.Ties or webs are the same as rod holes on a convential poured wall. They can leak!

"These ties are not made of concrete, so they expand and contract at a different coeiffient than the concrete wall."

Chirp; There would be one exception: Isomax ICF exclusively uses a concrete tie (Shaped like a "Dunbell with a 2" shaft and a 6" diameter flange) bonded with poly-eurthane to the interior side of either EPS or many other flat panels. This substantialy resolves any water seepage as well as allowing a greater flexibility as to panel configeration (i.e. EPS - Concrete - MgO2, Viroc, Tectum, Heraglit, etc.).

WE need the same HELP as Paula in Ontario.

We can totally understand Paula's situation.  We bought a house in Toronto, Ontario Canada - 2 years ago  for our expanding family.  As our first home we thought we had quality and great home inspector and no issue since it is 10 years old made with ICF and it has a finished basement but - we believe the previous owners finished it to hide the water leaks - no recourse with them as they moved out of country.  Two months after we moved in we had water in little puddles around the front and the back walls of the house.  These leaks also coincide with where we have bay windows on the house or entry or exit doors.  We have removed drywall and found that we have moisture where the foam meets the footing and also for some reason we have two pours of concrete 6 inches from the top of the forms and it is in those 6 inches that the concrete is like popcorn - I removed a lot of the interior foam insulation and most of the concrete underneath is smooth except for at the top and the bottom six inched above the footing.   The high water table is about 18 inches below our floor.  The basement ceiling height is 9 feet. The outside of our house is brick with a stucco below to ground level applied directly to the foam insulation on the icf outside and it is cracked around running around the house and below that I think there is a drainage board applied to the icf to connect to the weeping tiles that have never been wet since we lived here.  We have leaks at the back of the house and the front of the house - nothing major drips or water seeping up from the plastic forms/ties in the concrete and foam from the footing onto the floor in a small puddle or dripping down along the plastic forms/ties in the concrete from this two pour area 6 inches below the top of the foam and the start of the first floor.  We are trying to find specialists or experts to give us some in Ontario or help as we would like to do a reno and fix this as well so we start living here as opposed to waiting for the next leak to occur on pins and needles all the time when it rains or snows.  Any thoughts or help in Ontario would be great.  I will include some pictures in my next post if that will help.


Thank you.

Dear Gareth, Does this house of yours has gutters and proper installed down spouts? You write in one of your last sentences that ... everytime it rains or snows ... . And you also tell us that the water table is 18" below your basement floor. So it looks that a proper way of directing the rainwater will solve the problem. Maybe i missed something.

Thank you for your thoughts Caluwe-Gong, but yes we have ensured all the downspouts discharge 10-20 feet away from the house as well as placed a membrane around the first 3 feet of the house on the north (side) and east (front of the house under the bay windows) the move - it would appear that the leaks primarily occur at the front and back under the bay windows and under the deck.  There is popcorn like concrete the top 6 inches and bottom six inches of the wall and when we removed the foam on the inside their is the smell of earth and some dirt sitting on the footing that is wet to moist.  We recently observed a leak coming from the 6 inch top of the wall (above grade) along a two inch hole next to a plastic tie anddripping down the foam and coming out then running along one of the plastic ties the previous home owners had installed drywall over - we will be removing all the drywall in the basement and replacing it with the anti mold drywall or cellulose free once we figure out how to do deal with the water issue and how it is getting in.

At the bottom we are thinking we do may not have a complete seal down there or improper weeping tiles and drainage and may be removing all the soil around the house in the spring redoing the water proofing but we have had water proofers telling us to remove all the foam on the outside and then park ( but how does one parge over the plastic - will it not need to be all cut then once again will it not expand or contract different then the parge and cause cracking.  They will will wrap the house in an aquaseal and dimple membrane and back fill with clearstone with a membrane over the clear stone.  Others have told us to aquaseal the foam then just dimple over it - but I have read in doing that it is said that any water that gets has no way to get out.

Another has said put an internal weeping tile inside and one outside and then will capture both but then we are also looking $$$$$$.

I think there may be too issues - one at the bottom of the walls and one at the top.  The bottom may be no hydraulic break with the shallow water table and capilary action bringing water up the footings to the foam and sitting there since the basement floor does not connect to the wall just sits on the footing and connects to the foam.  We may need to break apart this sections and remove the foam up the wall 10--20 inches and put some dimple board (the water prooffing board with internal weeping tiles) then connect all that to the sump pump.

The one at the top of the wall I think may be the brick surfacing sitting ontop of the popcorn top six inches of concrete that sits upon the solid wall from what we have seen.  This pop corn is covered by a cracking parge or stucco coat and I think driving rain or water is getting into the brick dripping down and entering that way or coming in next to the wall as it runs down the bricks hits these cracks and moves into the house that way throught he foam.

We have also had an issue with carpenter ants in the exact same areas that we are having a water issue and think they are related to the deck in the back until they showed up under the front bay window inside and coming out of the water clearout at the parge/stucco brick interface ont he outside wall.

I will provide some pictures tommorow - I do appreciate any support anyone can give us to solve this while keeping our costs down as this was our first home and we thought we were buying a perfect finished home until these issues started. We also tried to right to Holmes on Holmes one month after we moved in and realized our (home inspector did not really inspect or to be fair have time to inspect - he was only given 3 hours) but did not get a reply back Holmes.  I appreciate the time and effort anyone puts into their responses here. 

It would appear those we have talked to in the area do not have a lot of familiarity with leaking ICF or what to do with it or are applying their expertise for water proofing/basements using other construction methods instead of researching icf and looking for answers in what they see when they come here.

Writing that I see pictures will help I will go take some today and post them tommorow.

Paula, I own and operate Illiana Basement Waterproofing IBWP. The only viable option is to either excavate and use the platton or delta ms air gap membrane either inside or outside. However if you do inside you will have to have a complete new interior drain tile system with drainage flange at bottom to guide air gap membrane into. I have confronted this issue many times. The inside method is substantially lower cost than outside excavation. No poly membrane or petroleum based sealants will work they will dissolve or melt away the foam be cautious. Yes it is a nightmare but can be handled. I am currently bidding a job in Valparaiso Indiana with the same issue. Don't know if you have proceeded with your repair as of yet but was just reading up on line. Good luck and if you need help go to leakyprofessor.com