At first, the gravel was one of my main doubts also. When pouring a typical footer for commercial projects we'd be required to have the soil tested. If it didn't meet the code requirements, we'd have to remove the bad soil and replace it with either good soil packed in lifts, or use gravel. Gravel always took less time.

1)Gravel distributes the weight of the house to the foundation walls and then to the soil, being that ultimately the soil is what holds the house up.
2)It also provides a complete drain field under the entire foundation. It mitigates any chance of hydrostatic pressure. The drain tile around the foundation are there to insure that whatever excessive water that may accumulate in the gravel will drain out to day-light. This is a common practice regardless of what system you use.

Unfortunately residential projects here in NC aren't required by code to check the soils.

As far as using Superior Walls above grade we have had a considerable increase in the last 4 years. We take a any custom home plan and integrate it into our cad program and make the walls accordingly, windows, doors, etc.  Now we provide a 12' high wall for light commercial also.    

But the gravel base still introduces water to under the floor on the inside.

When I used SW for a walk-out basement, the ground was sloped under the basement floor to drain to the outside.  Of course, this meant the gravel was thicker at the back of the exposed wall of the basement.  Foundation drains were used on the backfilled walls.

I like Superior Walls but I wish in addition to the vertical rebar in the studs and the horizontal rebar in the head and footing bond beams, that there was some way to add horizontal rebar to the wall in between.

Where you have soil you have moisture.

The gravel is the separator between the soil and concrete floor. It is used as the vehicle to make sure water will not trap under your slab or your wall. It's one of the main reasons that the railroad system uses it. (Transfer of load & is incapable of holding water.) 

Are you serious?  
What do you do for drain tile when you cant drain to daylight?

I can relate to your concerns, it's bin quite an educational experience for me to learn of how water flows through the different soil properties, from sand to heavy clay. There is nothing normal about a basement. We forget that we are putting something where it naturally does not belong. Making water flow out to daylight is easily done by good excavation.

When it's a complete in-ground (Walk-up) basement, it's required to use a sub-pump system like we do up north. All the drain tile are ran to the pump well and than pump up and out at least 30 feet away from the house. A back up generator is a good recommendation if power happens to be an issue.

"how water flows through different soil properties" Excellent point, for the migration of water through sandy/loamy soils will carry the fines down into the clear stone drainage area. Without a filter cloth or geotextile membranes the clean stone drainage is rendered useless over time. In fact, it takes only a small amount of fines throughout the perimeter of the stone subgrade to choke/render the whole system ineffective during high water table events, especiallly when a sump vs. daylight drain is used.

For discussion, please note railroad beds are above grade where fines do not enter the voids in the gravel bed, and naturally drained without maintenance. A completely different application from below grade drainage.

In addition, proper compaction of stone is paramount, as clear stone does settle when layed/sprayed in deep layers. Like most "systems" the engineering makes sense only with perfect installation.

Irnevek, Your points are valid, as noted before superior walls does the compaction of gravel themselves to insure proper procedure. They also require filter fabric to protect the gravel. Its all in the quite detailed builder guide found on their website. It would probably be a good idea for everyone following this thread to at least look at the builder guide so we have some base for this thread. Lots of pictures,charts soil psi gravel depths, drains and filter fabrics issues discussed.

Greentree, I am serious. When I can't drain to daylight the outside draintile drains right into the sump.

And the sump is inside your basement; your exterior draintile is connected to your interior draintile with bleeders connected to your sump pit, therefore you are bringing water under your basement floor making your cause against gravel footers moot, you have the same principle with gravel AND concrete footings.

The exterior draintile is not connected to the interior draintile except at the sump, so no, water is not introduced to the inside.

And how do you put ICFs on superior walls for above grade?

So then what are you putting exterior drain tile in for? Actually, since you seem to believe concrete footings block water why dont you explain why you have a sump and interior drain tile at all, where does the water come from in your foundations sump?

the exterior drain tile drains into the sump, what don't you understand? And yes in everything except sand and gravel the footing will stop the water. The course rock allows for very good drainage from the outside to under the floor.

What do you do with superior walls above grade?

I personally haven't had the opportunity of using the icf system on top of Superior Walls, but I it can be done by using anchoring bolts at the top of the wall and then placing the foams accordingly. The SW's have a predrilled 1/2" hole every 2' for sill plate attachments. The same could be used for anchoring. 

I never realized how complicated things could be made to seem.

Of,course each project is dealt with on an individual basis. In general all complete in-ground basements will be required to have in exterior drain tile. On some occasions they will also have an interior tile. All drain tile will end up at a sump well. This well is found either on the inside or outside perimeter of the basement. Each project is handled a little differently depending site circumstances. This method has been used for as long as I and my father have been setting basements from the 70's. Back then we built the wells out of block. Today they have many different products to choose from.

Pretty obvious whats up here. SOME less scrupulous ICF contractors will try to create false fears about products they perceive as a threat to their business rather than focusing on honest debate that would allow a consumer to make a good choice.

Come on! Over in the SIP forum this never happens! :(

Okay, I must ask the question...who in their right mind would put an ICF wall on top of a superior wall foundation? Has anyone ever even heard of that being done? I could be in the minority, but that statement does not make any sense to me.

If I thought Superior walls were better than ICFs I would switch. Because let me tell you I am not in this for the money. my point on introducing water under the basement floor is accurate as is the practical use of Superior walls above grade.

Brawler, Don't take cheap shots.... How did you pick your user name?