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lzerarc
Basic Member
Posts:395
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| 25 Jun 2012 12:05 PM |
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I tend to disagree. I dont think a license means jack anymore. I have jobs that constantly fail inspection done by licensed electrians.
Look at this very thread...I assume the contractor has a license, yet where is the rebar?
there are areas around me that do not have inspections either.
But I think your point is valid...in general DIY probably has a higher rate of failure. However there are some very good DIY people that do their research and pay close attention to detail. I have seen better DIY jobs then contractor jobs. |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:2126
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| 25 Jun 2012 12:25 PM |
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I have seen better DIY jobs then contractor jobs. I'm all about that, but the fact that we are discussing having seen good DIY jobs indicates that training is worth something. Electrical is probably a poor example as it is one of the better regulated, and rightfully so. The fact that everyone asks you if you went down to get a contractor's license before you did your own house indicates that one is not taken too seriously. In this state, I am beginning to suspect that we want to let otherwise unemployable people have a business license so they can get what they can kill regardless of the cost to others, rather than having them bounce on and off the welfare and disability rolls. |
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jdebree
Basic Member
Posts:187
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| 25 Jun 2012 04:02 PM |
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I found it interesting that my footer was inspected pre-pour, and so was my slab, but after that, the next inspection is a combination of framing, electrical rough-in, and plumbing rough-in. In other words, the outer shell will be built before he looks at again. The inspector has no way of knowing what is or isn't inside my walls- just my word for it. Generally, the roof is finished as well, so he won't even know if I followed code on sheathing nail spacing. Seems like some major items will never be inspected. That's why I'm glad I'm DIY- no corners are being cut! |
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staticclover
New Member
Posts:29
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| 25 Jun 2012 06:02 PM |
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Just to be clear, this is not a basement, the blocks are going a little more than foot below grade with the slab to be poured above grade. |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:2126
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| 26 Jun 2012 12:06 AM |
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Dowels have to do with the walls rocking back and forth on the footings. That is called "racking" and it is dangerous because the motion can tear other things apart. What does it say on the plans for seismic zone? Everything out there in West Kentucky appears to be pretty severe seismic zones.
A foot below grade? Isn't the minimum footing depth there 24"? Does the ICF qualify it as a frost protected foundation? |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:1486
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| 26 Jun 2012 12:23 AM |
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Posted By ICFHybrid on 26 Jun 2012 12:06 AM
Dowels have to do with the walls rocking back and forth on the footings. That is called "racking" and it is dangerous because the motion can tear other things apart. What does it say on the plans for seismic zone? Everything out there in West Kentucky appears to be pretty severe seismic zones.
A foot below grade? Isn't the minimum footing depth there 24"? Does the ICF qualify it as a frost protected foundation?
If the home was in a NON-seismic zone, while not ideal or Nudura "code", it would be OK without dowels (barring a high wind event). In a seismic zone, like ICFHybrid stated, the walls can walk away and fall off the footing. Not to mention collapse. Could water get beneath the ICF wall and footing, freeze and then heave the wall? |
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staticclover
New Member
Posts:29
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| 26 Jun 2012 01:32 AM |
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The footing and the wall below grade gets us to 24" below grade. With icf being used for basements all the time and being in the ground at frost levels, I couldn't imagine this being an issue after we seal it. I've talked to a concrete contractor locally who looked at the situation and had no concern about it whatsoever. He said after we pour 25 yards of concrete between the walls that it wasn't going anywhere. The engineer is coming out Wednesday or Thursday to check it out, if we've got an issue weather it's real or just perceived I want to address it now instead of worrying about the slim chance of my home falling in on me for the next 30-50 years. |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:1486
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| 26 Jun 2012 01:55 AM |
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Posted By staticclover on 26 Jun 2012 01:32 AM
The footing and the wall below grade gets us to 24" below grade. With icf being used for basements all the time and being in the ground at frost levels, I couldn't imagine this being an issue after we seal it. I've talked to a concrete contractor locally who looked at the situation and had no concern about it whatsoever. He said after we pour 25 yards of concrete between the walls that it wasn't going anywhere. The engineer is coming out Wednesday or Thursday to check it out, if we've got an issue weather it's real or just perceived I want to address it now instead of worrying about the slim chance of my home falling in on me for the next 30-50 years.
I think you are doing well by taking the pro-active approach and the engineer will have the final say. All of this could have been avoided by simply installing $200 worth of rebar dowels into the footing. Let us know how it turns out... |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:2126
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| 26 Jun 2012 02:30 AM |
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Curious as to why the engineer needs to see the site. |
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Chris Johnson
Advanced Member
Posts:728
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| 26 Jun 2012 06:59 PM |
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Posted By ICFHybrid on 26 Jun 2012 02:30 AM
Curious as to why the engineer needs to see the site.
On site inspections to review the site open ones eyes as to new ideas as opposed to just seeing it on paper. Whenever feasible you want someone to come to the site for a review and discussion...it's amazing how quickly theory doesn't always work in reality and reality once on site prevails along with other methods of constructing the same item different ways and choosing which one works best and implementing it.
In other words, what one see on site can help make a better decision on the build |
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Chris Johnson - Pro ICF
North of 49 |
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theInvincible
New Member
Posts:42
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| 26 Jun 2012 09:57 PM |
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I vote on rebar dowels. |
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BrianBaron
New Member
Posts:58
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| 28 Jun 2012 03:54 PM |
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I think the best point was made by LBear... $200 worth of rebar could have avoided the whole issue.. Heck, you can use cut off pieces from other jobs or pre-cutting rebar for this job to make your dowels. Even if they were not perfect,it is better than none! Sounds like a lazy builder to me.. |
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staticclover
New Member
Posts:29
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| 28 Jun 2012 11:15 PM |
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The fix is in. Here is the detail I got from the engineer today to take care of the missing dowels. He's planning to come out Monday to see the job for himself. Does anyone have suggestions on what kind of epoxy to use to secure the dowels in the drilled holes? Also what size drill bit do I need for 3/4" rebar? |
 Attachment: RUDD_ICF_DETAIL.pdf
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:2126
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| 29 Jun 2012 12:42 AM |
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7/8" masonry carbide-tipped drill bit with rotary hammer for #6 bar. $400-$600 or rent by the day for about $50.
Concrete anchor epoxy. Simpson has one you can find in the framing connector section. Otherwise look in the concrete section
You need compressed air and nozzle to blow the holes out and a proper sized bristly hole brush to clean the hole.
Proper engineering is to use the drill bit about an 1/8" larger than the deformed bar with lots of epoxy, but I always use same size bit and hammer the dowel in with an engineer's hammer. Uses less epoxy. |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:1486
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| 29 Jun 2012 05:28 AM |
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Posted By staticclover on 28 Jun 2012 11:15 PM
The fix is in. Here is the detail I got from the engineer today to take care of the missing dowels. He's planning to come out Monday to see the job for himself. Does anyone have suggestions on what kind of epoxy to use to secure the dowels in the drilled holes? Also what size drill bit do I need for 3/4" rebar?
Great to hear. So this tells me that the engineer deduced that the footing needed to be tied into the wall and the lack of the dowel rebar needed to be fixed. In other words, the contractor screwed up. Who is paying for this fix?? |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:1758
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| 29 Jun 2012 06:53 AM |
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I click on the attachment but nothing comes up. Is it just my computer or can other people see the attachment? |
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| Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu, 334 826-3979 |
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ICFHybrid
Veteran Member
Posts:2126
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| 29 Jun 2012 08:36 AM |
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I can see it with Firefox as a downloadable .pdf. Do you have pop-ups disabled for this site?
Unfortunately, the "fix" makes a solid thermal and damp connection between the slab floor and the uninsulated footing |
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Chris Johnson
Advanced Member
Posts:728
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| 29 Jun 2012 09:58 AM |
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Your engineer should have specified the epoxy.
Your building inspector may want an inspection by the engineer prior to final sign off
Do you know the proper way for doing epoxy work? |
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Chris Johnson - Pro ICF
North of 49 |
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staticclover
New Member
Posts:29
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| 29 Jun 2012 03:32 PM |
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Chris, I don't, I'll take any suggestions you guys have. I figured I'd follow the instructions and talk to the engineer Monday for more details.
Lbear, probably me, the contractor has made it clear to me that he did everything required of him to produce a solid wall even though I haven't talked to anyone that agrees with him completly. I've gotten everything from "you'll probably never have any trouble with it" to "this is a total disaster", but I haven't talked to anyone who says they build houses this way. I'd love to hear from someone else who builds walls this way if they are out there.
ICFHybrid, with foam board over the footer and only the rebar extending through to the slab, is that really going to make that much of an impact?
Thanks everyone for your help and comments on my project, I'm going to keep the thread updated as I get more information. |
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Chris Johnson
Advanced Member
Posts:728
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| 29 Jun 2012 04:59 PM |
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The engineer is suppose to spec the epoxy type and brand. I am used to having them on site witnessing the job...or they come back a day or two after and do a pull test. The pull test is time consuming and expensive.
Drill your holes 1/8 larger than the bar, so #4 bar, drill a 5/8" hole, brush it out, blow it out, brush it out again and blow it out again. Do this for every hole. If you have the inspector there, he will want to see the brush and blow once on every hole, this is why to save time and money, you get it all ready and do it one last time when he is there watching, he doesn't need to see you drill a hole.
Place the epoxy in the hole, do not drop it in, the tip of the epoxy tube needs to be at the bottom of the hole so you can place the epoxy. fill the hole up, insert the new dowel, with a twisting motion to get it all the way in. The epoxy should ooze up and over the edge, this is good and means you have ample epoxy, move on to the next one. If the epoxy settles and there is a gap beside the bar...pull it out and add more epoxy
I wasn't there and did not review your plans or site, so I cannot comment on the workmanship of the contractor, some engineers will tell you the repair detail provided is necessary, others will tell you it's fine. It's all a matter of opinion and who's signing the paper |
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Chris Johnson - Pro ICF
North of 49 |
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