Igreen,

I used PorterSips out of Holland, MI.  They use OSB and Polystyrene for their panels.  My experience was very good (from design, to delivery, to support).  I have posted in the past regarding them.  If you want more, let me know.  FTR, I have no affiliation with them other than being a customer (about 2 years ago).

Read our experience with ThermaSteel panels in a reply in another post ....and I need to add that if you use them make sure you cover everything in a contract and have an attorney look it over as we are almost 4 years into our litigation with no resolution and our walls are awful. Our walls were not straight which caused our sheetrock to be unlevel. Our bathroom walls were so unlevel  and unsquare that trying to put up tile has been costly because the walls are not straight.  They cut and pieced panels...they did not fit together like a glove. None of our window an door openings are where they were suppose to be on our plans. Where windows were center of bedroom walls etc. on our plans they are off by a foot or more in installation. Our front door opening is almost two feet over to one side rather than center of the foyer.  Also, we have a basement and when the walls were installed there was no (doorway) opening to the hallway from the  upstairs to get to the one side of the house where we had a guest bedroom and  to get to the stairwell to the basement.  So the installers just cut a doorway in and did not brace it when that  door was installed  there was nothing to attach to but foam. Everything that could go wrong with this system has gone wrong and continues to cause problems today. And all of  that would be because they did not do the engineered drawings that we paid for. We have yet to get a copy of these supposed engineered drawings.We have yet to get any help from corporate or from our distributor. Our windows and doors openings in panels did not get properly cut for our windows and we have major water coming in everytime it rains. They had our window sizes and door sizes per our door/window provider and ThermaSteel messed it all up. The list goes on and on. It has been a nightmare and continues to be today. Because they pieced and cut and left gaps between panels we have wondered what it does to the engineering of the panels in holding up the roof, etc.  Nothing resolved.

Thermasteel panels were utilized in the exterior construction of the 'environmentally wise' home in Texas. The homeowners found the panels and necessary adjunct materials very expensive. Construction time and effort was extensive and tedious using thermasteel panels. Assembly and integration of the product was labor intensive, and the panels were found to be difficult to work with in general. Sub contractors were frustrated. The manufacturer refused to help the homeowners when they requested their assistance with more than one issue.

Hey Guys, that's quite a battle and kinda fun to read.
Chris, I think you get combative sometimes, especially when you hear stupid and uninformed statements. No need to take it personally though.

I've been building with metal clad panels for over 20 years, mostly commercial and a few homes. I prefer aluminum clad panels but Chris is
probably the most knowledgeable steel sips home builder that I know of--even if he is a little passionate about his business. I am familiar with
the panel he uses and believe it to be a great product.

As to panels over 24', I don't believe in using spliced panels because I've experienced a couple of failures in trying that. Anyone who tries to span
over 24' with any sips panel is looking for trouble. Just add a support member and add another panel. Most span charts are conservative but I
would never go beyond that--you may need factory support if something goes wrong.

BTW I can't think of any reason to EVER use OSB panels.

Dan Huckeby
727-560-2240

"BTW I can't think of any reason to EVER use OSB panels"

I'm sure that's a true statement, however, more folks DO find Many reasons to use "OSB panels", rather than metal clad panels, particularly in residential projects. By the way, this topic has been "beaten to death" on these forums, and anyone who is really interested in pursuing it could just search the GBT archives, for a vast amount of great information, missinformation, and opinions, as well humorous, ridiculous, and downright stupid, assertions, along with a healthy dose of plain old BS. (of course, this evaluation of the subject posts is only a reflection of my OPINION)

Cheers!

Sipper:

Of course I should have said "in my inexperienced opinion" when I made that statement. I have read a lot of the discussions on this forum before I decided to join in. I have also used OSB panels on a few projects (residential) and as someone who has used a much better product here is the obvious:

1. OSB panels rot and mildew.
2. OSB panels have about half the span capabilities of metal clad.
3. OSB panels are heavy and hard to handle.
4. OSB panels burn easily.
5. OSB panels cost less on the front but are more labor intensive.

I know all that has been covered on this forum in the past as well as other subjects that you still discuss--maybe we should just quit posting.

BTW, I notice you are listed as a "distributor/reseller". Have you ever actually built anything?

Dan

Reddirt,

I don't quite understand your opening statement, are your describing yourself as being "inexperienced"?

In response to your OSB "bashing":

1. OSB panels don't "rot and mildew" when correctly installed, and properly protected (Wrap, flashing, siding, etc.)
2. You're the engineer, but are you saying that you can span 36' with a 7 1/4" core metal skin panel? (30# live load) (if so, you've got me there) (18' span with a 7 1/4" OSB SIP Does require a TGI spline
connection which results in a thermal break of less than 1/2" every 4' or 8' depending upon what width panel is used. I'm going to go out on a limb here, but it "seems to me" that the metal to metal
interlock connection as employed by MS panels would result in a thermal break that would equal or exceed the one that might result from the TGI spline. (Would either really be significant?)
3. OSB panels are heavier than Metal skin panels, but I've never seen any indication that they're "hard to handle" Anyone who wants to, can check out dozens of installations on You Tube, and on most of
the SIP manufacturers' websites. We do often use cranes or pettibones, or forklifts, to install larger roof panels, particularly on 2 and 3 story projects. (Also some times with very large wall panels)
4. OSB panels don't "burn easily" when correctly installed, with the required thermal barriers. (see fire tests at www.r-control.com)
5. Frankly, I don't know what metal skin panels cost. However, I am aware that the "snap together" panels that are typically used in agricultural buildings, warehouses, industrial facilities, etc. are cheaper,
and less costly to install. I'm also aware, that in some areas of the country, you can just leave these panels unfinished on both sides, which would certainly be cheaper. Having said that, most people
wouldn't care for that look for their homes.

While I have never "bashed" the metal skinned SIPs on these forums, I will point out some benefits of OSB panels when comparing the two options.

1. OSB Panels are much more readily available throughout the country. Benefits here are obvious.
2. OSB Panels have pre drilled wiring chases. I't's my understanding that M.S. Panels don't, and require that furring be applied to provide wiring chases between panel skin and drywall. I'm also aware that
in commercial, agricultural, and industrial applications surface mounted conduit is utilized as the wiring system. And, that products such as Wiremold are available for surface mounted wiring in office
and residential applications (Its hard to really be brief with posts such as this, if you leave something out, somebody's going to jump all over it)
3. OSB is a wood based product, that contractors and carpenters are used to working with, no special tools required, no special attachment materials or procedures required for drywall and siding
installation. (But, yes, the nailing, or screw pattern, for attaching siding is different from 2 x 6, 16" oc framing)
4. OSB panels are typically available in 4' and 8' widths. The 8' width can offer a particular advantage in projects with 8' plate heights and large roof areas. I think that I've heard that MS panels are
available in lengths up to 48' (or longer?) but I was under the impression that they are only available in widths up to 48". (Is that correct)

Bottom line, from my perspective, there will be projects out there where one of these options will offer an advantage(s) over the other but I don't think that either will knock the other out of the marketplace anytime soon. In the meantime, the folks who are perusing these forums for information can draw their own conclusions from the information that is provided herein.

Its a free country, quit posting if you want, or, maybe even think about contributing something positive to the discourse.

Answer to your closing question is "Yes".

Yes, and we wouldn't ever use them (ThermaSteel) again. The distributor was not a good one from the experience we had and the manufacturer was no help whatsoever. We would never, never recommend this product to anyone ever. We still have not got resolution in the problems we are experiencing from building with the panels and we found it to be way more expensive than building with wood. We used the panels for exterior and interior walls and they didn't come in based on our houseplans so they didn't fit and the distributor who hired the installation crew had them cut and piece. It has cost us a lot of money and time in trying to fix the mistakes and still have to get us an engineer to come back and give us a report. We have already had two engineers in the beginning to assess the situation. Bad, Bad, Bad.

We did and agree with you that ThermaSteel panels are expensive, and expecially when you are trying to correct the errors made in manufacture of product that was delivered, when it did not conform to our floorplans. They left out doorways in interior. Moved over windows and doors from our original plans and caused our plumbing to be off in the slab due to panels not being manufacturing per the correct wall thickness for water walls as was in our contract. We also found all our subs to dislike (hate) working with the panels especially the plumber and the electrician. The sheetrock subs were even more unhappy about working with this product. They all charged us extra because we used the panels and they said they would never do a house again that used them. We did not get help from the manufacturer either and our distributor got into legal problems and became unavailable. You would think that the manufacturer would have stepped up to assist but no. So, NO recommendation from us for ThermaSteel.

bconner333: I guess I completely overlooked the thread was about ThermaSteel. My mistake--I have had no experience with ThermaSteel but it sounds like you have a valid complaint with them.

Mr. Sipper: Sorry if I ruffled your feathers. Yes I am fairly inexperienced in building homes. I built only about 30 homes mostly around 2,000 sf with metal clad panels. Then I realized homebuilding was much harder than commercial construction so after about 18 months I went back to building restaurants, casinos, etc.

Maybe there is a use for OSB panels after all in the homebuilding business. I'm glad I ran onto an expert tinman who could set me straight.

Your answer to my last question was "yes" Yes what?

Dan;

you are starting to sound combative, if you make one mis-step on this forum you will get torn to shreads , don't take it personally !   ;)

Very good call Chris. Guess I should take my own advice. Sometimes it's fun to stir up the natives.

All forums are the same--some good info and a few that just like to argue useless points. Actually I have found some really good info here.

Have you used ICF as a foundation for the sips?

Dan

Hey, "MR" Reddirt" This is sort of a "tofer" (That's as in a one post response to your last 2 posts)

First of all, Don't worry about "ruffling my feathers", but most of the the participants on these forums are not taking their valuable time to "have fun stirring up the natives". But, I am happy that you've "found some really good info here".

Next, in regard to your comments "...................and a few that argue useless points" No one comes on these forums, and makes unsubstantiated negative comments about widely used, and accepted building systems without being challenged.

Lastly, if you were paying attention, you'd at least remember when you throw out a challenging question directly to someone on one of these "discussion threads" . So, to refresh your memory, check out your post on 11-17-2010 at 11:57 AM where you asked me if I'd ever "built anything" My answer was "Yes".

By the way, congratulations on all of your restaurant and casino work, I guess that there is still some pretty good funding available these days for the latter.

Mr. Sipper,

All work and no play?

I'm paying as much attention a possible and I did remember the question--your answer was "yes". Yes, What?

Do you build homes, outhouses, etc.? Or do you just sell OSB panels?

Dan;

I became a certified Logix installer 6 years ago, but after going thru the training decided to stick with our SIPs, that are simpler, faster, less expensive and have more design flexibilty.
We did install  a SIP roof over an ICF done by an owner builder, it was horendous! It took us 2 days to straighten the top plates and compensate for the bulging and out of plumb walls.
When installing the ridge beams we were shocked at the movement in the poured gable walls.
I never understood the thinking process in constructing this supposedly superior wall system , then install an inferior conventional wood roof on top?
I would have more respect for ICF builders that topped off there walls with a SIP roof (any SIP roof), but they seem to fall short on providing a total superior envelope

I live in Herndon VA. We are looking into building a family home however we have some pretty specific wants and needs. Is there a GC in the area willing to allow me to pick their brains? I have some really rough plans drawn up, by rough I mean I used paint to make some lines and ripped some gifs from a free software site to get a general lay out. We are looking for build estimates, and things of that nature, but also I am hoping I can do most of the construction with the help of a few good friends so the thermasteel system or something like it is very appealing to me as I can handle putting in a ton of screws. :-) Please and thank you, Patricia, ciccas _ world at yahoo dot com