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Chico
New Member
Posts:20
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| 29 Feb 2008 05:23 PM |
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Joe,
Believe it or not we're supposed to be Metric here in Canada also but the building industry still persists with Imperial. It's hard for some of us to refer to a two by four as a 50 by 100.
Our tape measures quite often are in both measuring systems.
As far as your question goes, it seems like a good price however unless the EPS has a really high R (Insulating Value) then it's too thin for here. The eps I'm looking at using is approx. 150mm thick.
I've seen a website in China that has a contact here in Toronto and they make the panels specifically for the Canadian market. I never got a price from them because in the end it's just a lot easier for me to build them locally now that I have a quote that makes it quite reasonable.
Thanks,
Chico |
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Chico
New Member
Posts:20
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| 29 Feb 2008 05:30 PM |
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I'm not an expert but I think I would use a certain amount of glue to hold everything together even though the panels aren't structural.
Definitely you're going to have a nice roof insulation system in the end.
Chico
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firefox
New Member
Posts:34
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| 29 Feb 2008 05:58 PM |
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Hi Chico,
Did you aquire a list of supliers for the really thick EPS?
My sittuation is that I don't need structural either, although I will be bonding one side to
galvalume using a vacumn settup. I need sources for the EPS close enough to Eureka Nevada
that won't kill me on shipping.
Bruce
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Chico
New Member
Posts:20
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| 29 Feb 2008 08:51 PM |
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Try this site: http://www.epsmolders.org/2.html. and then this is an exerpt from an earlier e-mail I sent about a supplier I found near me: "I've got good news. Thanks to the link Nolan sent me I was able to find a supplier in Toronto. www.legerlite.ca 416 335-0192. They gave me a quote of $38.40 per panel, 4 X 8 ft X 6" thick. Type 1, EPS. Total R value will be 22.5. I calculate $12 for 2 sheets OSB, $38.40 for the EPS, $10.00 for adhesive for a total of $60.40 per 4 by 8 ft panel finished. Which makes it $1.88 per sq ft. They custom slice from 30" blocks." You should be able to find a supplier near you who will slice the foam whatever thickness you want out of 30". Good Luck |
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Chico
New Member
Posts:20
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| 23 Mar 2008 07:19 PM |
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Brett,
I don't aniticipate having problems with the building inspector due to the timber frame providing the structural strength.
I think your idea of using come along straps would work becuase all you really need is enough clamping pressure for the glue to bond to the material being used. Since your panels and mine are not Structural Insulated Panels (SIPS) but are Insulated Panels (IPS).
I built a home up near Pembroke some years back and had no problems with the building inspector. It was a matter of sitting down with him and convincing him that I was building a solidly built home according to code. It was a post and beam home with traditional studs between the posts. I used fibreglass insulation between the studs. I'm pretty sure the panels that you and I are proposing to use would be an improvement over that system that I used.
Take a look through the e-mails in this thread and you'll find that it should work out substantially cheaper to build your own panels and I'm convinced you don't have to be an expert craftsman.
However please don't take me for an expert. I don't do this for a living. I've only built the one house!!
My research is at a standstill as I am being posted to Kingston and am waiting till I move there to start looking for land.
Pse let me know if and when you start building and I would be interested in any new info you are able to provide.
Thanks,
Chico
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Ruff01
New Member
Posts:1
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| 31 Mar 2008 09:08 AM |
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Great info here. I'm in southern Ontario and looking to enclose a timber frame with SIPS. I want to manufacture the SIPS myself but have a few questions I'd appreciate some clarification on.
First, am I correct to believe I can use non certified or registered SIPS in the construction of a house for myself or for sale?
Second, all posts except the second one suggest the preferred method of manufacturing SIPS is by gluing OSB under pressure to both side of the EPS. The second post suggests you could set up a mold using the OSB as the two main sides and spray the foam in between and let the foam itself adhere to the OSB. I've looked at a couple of manufacturing systems on the web and they seem to use the gluing method also. The gluing process seems to be preferred but I have not picked up any particular reason except maybe the mess of foaming. Can someone clarify which is preferred and why.
Finally, there seems to be lots of info on EPS based panels, can they be made with Soy based foam?
I noticed a number of questions related to the building process once you have the SIPS made. This link may be of help to some
http://www.altbuild.com/images/JLC___Bldg_with_SIPS_8%5B1%5D.06.pdf
I'd appreciate any feedback. Let me know.
Thanks
Charles |
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GeorgiaTom
Basic Member
Posts:159
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| 05 Apr 2008 09:01 AM |
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OK, I have followed this post for almost 4 months, there have been 45 replies and 4128 views.
There been a lot of baggin-off
Which one of you guys is currently making their own panels or are ya'll just still talkin' about it! |
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Vinmeister
New Member
Posts:15
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| 05 Apr 2008 01:53 PM |
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I found through my resarch into sips a very amiable company that would cut out the middleman in the northeast.
http://www.thermalfoams.com/Default.htm
They go soup to nuts sips to eps in varios thicknesses forms and profiles. Good Luck
Vinnie |
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Mortarsprayer
New Member
Posts:6
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| 05 Apr 2008 02:04 PM |
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Hi Tom.
I think Eric is close if not there already.
I have broadend out and am building a simple hot wire machine. There is also some savings to be had by buying complete Buns from the foam expander companies. What have you done so far with this project?
Regards,
Nolan
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GeorgiaTom
Basic Member
Posts:159
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| 05 Apr 2008 02:37 PM |
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Nolan;
I just thimk it is amusing reading these posts about DIY panels, it make about as much sense as me making my own carpet because I can get a good deal on a loom and yarn.
I predict that when it is all said and done nobody will do anything, its all a bunch of talk eating up valuable oxygen. |
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firefox
New Member
Posts:34
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| 07 Apr 2008 04:26 PM |
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Remember, there are a lot of us who are looking into making our own panels for reasons other that saving a few bucks.
I agree that if you are planning to build a standard home in an average US town and everyting is strictly conventional,
then building your own sips to ave a few bucks is probably not cost effective. However there are some people in this
world that the above does not apply to. I am intentionally not including examples since I believe that would be a waste of time.
Bruce |
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Andy@panelworksplus
New Member
Posts:3
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| 09 Apr 2008 12:28 PM |
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Posted By PanelCrafters on 01/08/2008 8:35 PM
Posted By nesdon on 01/08/2008 8:19 PM
I found this thread looking for some other techniques as I am planning on making some small portable site built sips structures and was looking for ideas. I'll post if I find any good solutions. If you aren't going to use manufactured SIPS, why use SIPS at all? You can achieve very good results with double wall construction:  Panelcrafters, I understand what you are trting to do with this wall but... Good luck sealing it. Plus you would get killed on labor building something like this. |
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Mortarsprayer
New Member
Posts:6
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| 09 Apr 2008 01:31 PM |
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That is an alien point of view to me Tom.
It reminds me of a person that
gets hungry so they have to go to a store to buy their food. I prefer to walk to
a garden or check the Chickens for fresh eggs.
When the power goes out
and your family is cold, do you sit and wait for someone to fix the problem or
do you turn on your generator? Right now I am building a Small diesel generator
that uses waste motor oil for fuel. It will also warm the hose with the excess
heat.
I have made my own sips (very small scale) in the past. Also; I
have made , plywood box beams and Plywood I beams. Right now I am playing with a
panel press for making SCIPS (structural concrete Insulated panels). It is all
interesting and good to learn.
Is it easier to pay a price and run to a
SIP manufacturer? Perhaps, but there are many reasons a person would choose to
build their own. Cost, distance, custom needs or ideas............
The
vacuum bag press idea for DIY SIPS is a real option for even a simple DIY
person. With that a guy could easily make several at a time.
Would I
weave my own carpet? Probably not. I'm not that interested in the process.
Instead, I did terrazzo floors in my home. Yes, it was pain in the ass, but when
I walk on my floor I know that every piece of brass was carefully mitered and
fitted, every batch of crushed marble and epoxy was placed exactly like I wanted
it. I ended up with something that was hand made and special.
I wonder
what tempers your view only towards buying the panels from someone else. Do you
sell panels?
Best regards,
Nolan
PS, real trucks are built, not
bought. (commence sticking out chest and do the Tim Taylor, Tool Time
grunt)
:)
PPS, I just secured a source for FREE eps. I wish I could
share the source but it would not be enough to help many people. The point is,
there ARE ways to do SIPS at a lower cost and to meet an individuals
goals.
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PanelCrafters
Advanced Member
Posts:680
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| 09 Apr 2008 01:48 PM |
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Posted By Andy@panelworksplus on 04/09/2008 12:28 PM
Panelcrafters,
I understand what you are trting to do with this wall but... Good luck sealing it. Plus you would get killed on labor building something like this.
Sealing? Actually not that difficult. 4'x 8' sheets of Styrofoam T&G, just need a good sealant at the edges(Tremco), and all seams taped. Yea, the labor would need to be DIY(free) or SIPS would be less expensive. |
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| ....jc<br>If you're not building with OSB SIPS(or ICF's), why are you building? |
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GeorgiaTom
Basic Member
Posts:159
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| 09 Apr 2008 02:56 PM |
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Mortarsprayer;
My deed restrictions don't allow chickens, but then again I woudn't want chickens. Ducks would be OK but not chickens.
When the power goes out my automatic propane generator kicks on in 20 seconds and powers my entire house along with my LPG tankless HW system.
I am a not talker, I am a doer!
If one wants to build there own SIPS - go ahead, but I don't want to hear them 2 years from now on this forum wondering why their walls are delaminating.
What scares me is a poor unsuspecting home buyer purchasing a home 5 years after the fact that comes apart at the seams because some gung-ho yahoo wants to stand back and say "Yep I dun it myself"
In the mean time SIPs would get a bad rap because of an idiot
No I do not sell panels, but I am an advocate of letting engineers make engineered products, of brain surgeons doing brain surgery and stump grinders grinding stumps.
It's great you have a free source for EPS, I would recommend that you grind it up and sell box packing.
Is that EPS Type I ? , Type IX? ..Type VIII? or doesn't it matter cause its free, see you all are on dangerous ground and some one is going to get hurt in the process of you guys not knowing what the hell your doing. Hopefully you will just hurt yourself! and it will be a lesson well learned.
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firefox
New Member
Posts:34
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| 09 Apr 2008 04:03 PM |
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Although there is some merit to your concern about SIP's getting a bad name from someone making a defective panel,
it doesn't really apply to most of the people on this thread. If someone makes a defective panel that is used in a timber frame home, it will not reflect on the integrety of SIP's since it is not being used as a structural panel.
I believe everyone on this thread is well aware of the limitations of home made SIP's and anyone with enough gumption to be making their own is bound to be smart enough to use them in the correct and safe context. |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4324
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| 09 Apr 2008 04:17 PM |
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Firefox;
I think Tom has a valid point, although the timber frame is a "main structural frame" the other claddings such as drywall, siding and roofing are mainly attached to the DIY panel skins. If not done correctly it would be catastophic.
If the homeowner feels compelled to get involved, It has always been my recommendation to let a seasoned professional install the shell and let the DYI take over all the non-structural parts of the project. If something goes wrong at least you would have some recourse. If you DYI your just stuck |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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firefox
New Member
Posts:34
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| 09 Apr 2008 04:46 PM |
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I agree Chris, but within context. If someone were building a regular home which was going to be used for a family dwelling
in a regular community, then I think that the shell construction should all be done by the book using certified pannels,
engineered mods, etc.
However, for unusual stuff like workshops for people who know what they are doing and are used to making their own stuff,
or for cabins out in the wilderness where it is uneconomical or downright impossible to ship premade sips to the location, and
assuming that the person is competent and knows what he is getting into then it is a whole different ball game.
I for one, would love to buy some of your galvalume clad snap together sips, but I would have to rob a bank just to pay for shipping. I would also have to make a considerable amount of modifications for them to fit into my highly irregular structure.
Which I might add, I really wouldn't mind doing to get a certified sip, but the shipping is ridiculous considering where my site is.
And yes, I really don't want a DIY'er bringing down the reputation of SIP's, I just don't think that applies to the majority of people on this thread.
Bruce |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4324
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| 09 Apr 2008 04:58 PM |
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Firefox;
Now robbing a bank is a good DYI project;
But I disagree with you on the downplay of importance for shops & cabins, anywhere a human occupies space is important and very often those types of spaces are converted for permanent habitation.
Now if someone wants to use home-made panels for a chicken coop or barn, no problem.
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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firefox
New Member
Posts:34
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| 09 Apr 2008 05:16 PM |
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I think we are basicaly in agreement, remember I am talking about SIP's used as non structural panels.
So the worst case is the owner will have to re side his building. If it were a standard residence I would
think it was a bad idea. In the case of someone remodeling for a dwelling, then the building departments would jump in
and straighten everything out. If there are no building departments then the person is on his own anyway,
and most likely not naive to the perils of home DIY construction.
We don't want to discourage competent people from thinking outside the box. Ideas like SIPs and ICF did not
just pop into existance without someone first experimenting and pushing forward until it became a real product.
Bruce |
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