Posted By the_postman on 24 Jul 2013 01:23 AM
When it comes to owner-made SIPs, the most appropriate and forgiving adhesive is the Isoset product made by Ashland chemical: http://www.ashland.com/Ashland/Static/Documents/APM/ISOSET%20CX-47%20tds.pdf    Build yourself a home made vacuum tent and apply eight pounds of vacuum per square inch and keep it constant for about two hours and you are in business.

Posted By cmkavala on 24 Jul 2013 08:08 AM

it is about as smart as making your own sheets of plywood with skins and glue, or making your own concrete blocks in your back yard

Posted By cmkavala on 24 Jul 2013 10:43 AM
It is an absolute insane idea,
Panel companies spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on engineering and testing, a DYI has no accreditation or documentation for building departments, no recourse if it doesn't turn out good,
a vacuum bag is no small endeavor.
not to mention OSB sheets come in 4ft x 24ft or 8ft x 24 ft sheets, steel comes in 6000# coils
it takes a great deal of space and industrial equipment, just to handle the materials

Posted By Kevin_in_Denver on 03 Sep 2013 11:00 AM
I agree with the SIP experts who have weighed in here: No, it's impractical to make your own SIPs. But I have a specific non-structural application for a set of insulated doors that I couldn't find commercially available, and it came down to this: Could I make a stiff, flat,light, stressed skin insulated panel door? Here's a link to what I did: http://www.youtube.com/edit?ns=1&o=U&video_id=9FABz-xEnQA

Posted By Kevin_in_Denver on 05 Sep 2013 12:24 AM
Here's that link:
http://youtu.be/9FABz-xEnQA

I am not suggesting that people make these to sell... If you live in an area where there are no building codes and you don't need to insure your structure, this might be just the ticket for you.

More on vacuum tent design but in the meantime, here you go....

ISOSET ADHESIVE LAMINATING GUIDE FOR STRUCTURAL PANELS

INTRODUCTION:  ISOSET is the leading adhesive for producing structural panels.  ISOSET WD3-A322 emulsion resin combined with ISOSET CX-47 crosslinker provides the east of production, rapid and dependable production rates, and long-term durability demanded by the structural panel industry.

TYPICAL MATERIALS USED:

            Cores:             Expanded or extruded polystyrene, polyurethane, and

                                    isocyanurate foams or honeycomb.

            Skins:              Waferboard, oriented strandboard (OSB), particleboard,

                                    gypsum or cementboard, and plywood.

            Facings:          Aluminum (backed or primed) and fiberglass reinforced plastic

                                    (FRP). 

NOTE:  The mechanism for curing ISOSET adhesives is for water from the glueline to be absorbed into one or both of the substrates being bonded during the pressing time and the period of time after the stack has been removed from the press and allowed to stand.  After the water is absorbed, the crosslinker reacts with the adhesive and crosslinks it.  Because of this requirement, direct foam to metal or foam to plastic laminations cannot be made with ISOSET adhesives because the foam is not porous enough to allow complete absorption of the water from the glueline.

SAFETY AND HANDLING:  Workers should wear proper gloves and eye protection while mixing the adhesive.  Gloves are also recommended for workers handling the adhesive coated panels.  Consult Ashland’s Material Safety Data Sheets for health, safety and handling information before using these products.

MIXING INFORMATION:  Add 16.7 parts by weight of ISOSET CX-47 crosslinker to 100 parts of ISOSET WD3-A322 resin emulsion.  Other ISOSET emulsions and crosslinkers are available.  Contact your Ashland representative for more information.

Mix slowly until the brown streaks caused by the addition of crosslinker disappear and a uniform tan color is obtained (3 minutes maximum).  Avoid overmixing.  Because of limited pot life, batch size should match the use rate.  Pot life is dependent on temperature; at 70°F a pot life of 120 minutes can be expected.  At temperatures above 90°F, guard against dry-out on the roll coater.

GLUE SPREADER:  The roll grooving for minimum squeeze-out should be 14 x ½ grooves/inch composite (Black Brothers Code A2137).  Wet rollers with water before placing glue on the spreader to facilitate cleanup.

SPREAD RATE:  To establish the spread rate, weigh a 1 Sq.Ft. piece of substrate.  Fill the bottom nip of the roll coater and run the test piece through the coater.  After the correct weight has been established, fill the top nip and run additional test pieces through until the correct weight for both sides is established.  Avoid rollback of the adhesive on the test piece, since this will give a false high reading for spread rate.

Recommended coating weights for the various composites are as follows:

<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

<!--[if gte mso 9]> Adjust rollers until the correct spread rate is obtained.  At warm temperatures, (>80°F), it will be necessary to increase spread rate to maintain a 25 minute stack time.  At cooler temperatures or shorter assembly times, lower spread rates are possible.

ASSEMBLY TIME (STACK TIME):  Once the laminating of the structural panels has started, the maximum time before placing the stack of panels under pressure is 30 minutes.  Allow 25 minutes to build the stack and 5 minutes to place the stack in the press and put it under pressure.  This applies to ambient temperatures of 65°F-75°F.  Higher temperatures will cause dry-out and require a higher spread rate or shorter assembly time.  When bonding OSB or waferboard, the panel temperature should be between 55°F and 80°F.  Keep the open assembly time, when the glueline is fully exposed to the air, below 1 minute.

PRESSURE:  The recommended amount of pressure needed to bond foam core panels is dependent on the type, density and thickness tolerance of the foam.  Some initial compression of the foam is desirable, however, compression set should be avoided.  As a general guide use:

<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

<!--[if gte mso 9]>  

If the adhesive spread rate and pressure are correct, small beads of squeeze-out should be observed around the perimeter of each panel.

When using a vacuum bag press for the higher density foams, the tolerances of the foam must be good to obtain intimate contact all over the panel; maximum available pressure must be used.

LAMINATING FACE MATERIALS:  The recommended pressure for laminating FRP or metal to OSB or waferboard is 40 psi if done in a separate step.  It is possible to make foam core panels with FRP or metal to wood facings in one step if the foam core can withstand higher pressure.  Successful 5-ply laminations have been made in one step at 10 psi pressure.  Check the foam to be sure that 10 psi pressure does not initiate compression set.  The recommended press times for various core materials are as follows:

Do not laminate at temperatures below 55°F, measured at the glueline.  Add 15 minutes to the above between 55°F and 60°F.

DRY-OUT:  If there is a break in the laminating operation for more than 30 minutes, such as during lunch, pour a small amount of water (4 oz.) over each roller to prevent dry-out.  Too much water will alter bond performance and cause delamination.  Do not allow adhesive to dry on the rollers.  If this occurs, cleanup is difficult.

When temperature exceeds 80°F, the cure cycle of the adhesive shortens.  Therefore, watch the adhesive on the rollers closely for premature dry-out.  Dry-out can be minimized by keeping the rollcoater nip full of adhesive.

PROCESSING INTERACTIONS:  Be aware of the interrelationship between spread rate,  moisture content of the skin, assembly time, temperature and press time.  For example, with a shorter assembly time (e.g. 15 min.), lower spread rates may be used.  Conversely, for longer assembly times, a higher spread rate may be required.  Higher moisture content skins may require lower spread rates and longer press times.  The absorbency of the substrates also influences these variables.  Contact your Ashland Technical Representative for specific processing parameters at your facility.

<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

<!--[if gte mso 9]> CLEAN-UP:  Follow the clean-up procedures recommended by the rollcoater manufacturer.  Warm water (100°F)  makes clean-up easier.  The use of Thermaclean¹ resin emulsifier helps reduce cleaning time.  Thoroughly clean rolls, troughs, and in and out feed areas.

Release coatings can facilitate clean-up of metal surfaces.  The use of Bates Boothcoating² or Product No. 627³ has been successful

¹Trademark, Cook Composites & Polymers, Heath, OH; Phone:  (614) 929-2866

²Trademark, U.S. Coatings Corporation, Buffalo, NY; Phone: (716) 833-9366

³Trademark, Associated Chemists, Portland, OR; Phone: (503) 659-1708

Posted By the_postman on 07 Sep 2013 03:02 AM
<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 Okay, folks, here are the official instructions for making SIP's with Isoset.  It ain't rocket science.  Your best bet is building a vacuum tent the heavy vinyl-coated cloth.  I'll post more information about how to build one of those shortly.  Also, there are ways of applying the Isoset that don't involve purchasing a roll coater - these are very costly.  One option I've considered would be to use a Wagner power roller -- you'd have to do some experiments to figure out how many grams of Isoset the pump pumps per second.  If you started with a roller that's loaded with Isoset and you push the button to actuate the pump and then roll the roller in measured passes, you'd probably get a fairly uniform coating of Isoset. 

I am not suggesting that people make these to sell... If you live in an area where there are no building codes and you don't need to insure your structure, this might be just the ticket for you.

More on vacuum tent design but in the meantime, here you go....

ISOSET ADHESIVE LAMINATING GUIDE FOR STRUCTURAL PANELS

 

INTRODUCTION:  ISOSET is the leading adhesive for producing structural panels.  ISOSET WD3-A322 emulsion resin combined with ISOSET CX-47 crosslinker provides the east of production, rapid and dependable production rates, and long-term durability demanded by the structural panel industry.

 

TYPICAL MATERIALS USED:

 

            Cores:             Expanded or extruded polystyrene, polyurethane, and

                                    isocyanurate foams or honeycomb.

 

            Skins:              Waferboard, oriented strandboard (OSB), particleboard,

                                    gypsum or cementboard, and plywood.

 

            Facings:          Aluminum (backed or primed) and fiberglass reinforced plastic

                                    (FRP). 

 

NOTE:  The mechanism for curing ISOSET adhesives is for water from the glueline to be absorbed into one or both of the substrates being bonded during the pressing time and the period of time after the stack has been removed from the press and allowed to stand.  After the water is absorbed, the crosslinker reacts with the adhesive and crosslinks it.  Because of this requirement, direct foam to metal or foam to plastic laminations cannot be made with ISOSET adhesives because the foam is not porous enough to allow complete absorption of the water from the glueline.

 

SAFETY AND HANDLING:  Workers should wear proper gloves and eye protection while mixing the adhesive.  Gloves are also recommended for workers handling the adhesive coated panels.  Consult Ashland’s Material Safety Data Sheets for health, safety and handling information before using these products.

MIXING INFORMATION:  Add 16.7 parts by weight of ISOSET CX-47 crosslinker to 100 parts of ISOSET WD3-A322 resin emulsion.  Other ISOSET emulsions and crosslinkers are available.  Contact your Ashland representative for more information.

 

Mix slowly until the brown streaks caused by the addition of crosslinker disappear and a uniform tan color is obtained (3 minutes maximum).  Avoid overmixing.  Because of limited pot life, batch size should match the use rate.  Pot life is dependent on temperature; at 70°F a pot life of 120 minutes can be expected.  At temperatures above 90°F, guard against dry-out on the roll coater.

GLUE SPREADER:  The roll grooving for minimum squeeze-out should be 14 x ½ grooves/inch composite (Black Brothers Code A2137).  Wet rollers with water before placing glue on the spreader to facilitate cleanup.

 

SPREAD RATE:  To establish the spread rate, weigh a 1 Sq.Ft. piece of substrate.  Fill the bottom nip of the roll coater and run the test piece through the coater.  After the correct weight has been established, fill the top nip and run additional test pieces through until the correct weight for both sides is established.  Avoid rollback of the adhesive on the test piece, since this will give a false high reading for spread rate.

 

Recommended coating weights for the various composites are as follows:

Construction	Spread Rate	Coating Weight 1 Sq.Ft. Test Piece
Skins to Foam Core ·         Expanded Polystyrene 1 pcf	50-55 lbs/1000 ft2	23-25 grams
·         Isocyanurate 1.5 pcf	45-50 lbs/1000 ft2	21-23 grams
·         Extruded Polystyrene 2 pcf	45-50 lbs/1000 ft2	21-23 grams
·         Metal or FRP to Plywood 36 pcf	35-40 lbs/1000 ft2	16-18 grams

 

<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

<!--[if gte mso 9]> Adjust rollers until the correct spread rate is obtained.  At warm temperatures, (>80°F), it will be necessary to increase spread rate to maintain a 25 minute stack time.  At cooler temperatures or shorter assembly times, lower spread rates are possible.

 

ASSEMBLY TIME (STACK TIME):  Once the laminating of the structural panels has started, the maximum time before placing the stack of panels under pressure is 30 minutes.  Allow 25 minutes to build the stack and 5 minutes to place the stack in the press and put it under pressure.  This applies to ambient temperatures of 65°F-75°F.  Higher temperatures will cause dry-out and require a higher spread rate or shorter assembly time.  When bonding OSB or waferboard, the panel temperature should be between 55°F and 80°F.  Keep the open assembly time, when the glueline is fully exposed to the air, below 1 minute.

 

PRESSURE:  The recommended amount of pressure needed to bond foam core panels is dependent on the type, density and thickness tolerance of the foam.  Some initial compression of the foam is desirable, however, compression set should be avoided.  As a general guide use:

<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

<!--[if gte mso 9]>  

Core	Density	Pressure
Expanded Polystyrene	1.0 pcf	5-7 psi
Isocyanurate	1.5 pcf	12-14 psi
Extruded Polystyrene	2.0 pcf	35-40 psi
Plywood	36 pcf	40-50 psi

 

If the adhesive spread rate and pressure are correct, small beads of squeeze-out should be observed around the perimeter of each panel.

 

When using a vacuum bag press for the higher density foams, the tolerances of the foam must be good to obtain intimate contact all over the panel; maximum available pressure must be used.

 

LAMINATING FACE MATERIALS:  The recommended pressure for laminating FRP or metal to OSB or waferboard is 40 psi if done in a separate step.  It is possible to make foam core panels with FRP or metal to wood facings in one step if the foam core can withstand higher pressure.  Successful 5-ply laminations have been made in one step at 10 psi pressure.  Check the foam to be sure that 10 psi pressure does not initiate compression set.  The recommended press times for various core materials are as follows:

 

Foam Core	Press Time
Expanded Polystyrene	45 minutes
Isocyanurate	60 minutes
Extruded Polystyrene	60 minutes

 

Do not laminate at temperatures below 55°F, measured at the glueline.  Add 15 minutes to the above between 55°F and 60°F.

 

DRY-OUT:  If there is a break in the laminating operation for more than 30 minutes, such as during lunch, pour a small amount of water (4 oz.) over each roller to prevent dry-out.  Too much water will alter bond performance and cause delamination.  Do not allow adhesive to dry on the rollers.  If this occurs, cleanup is difficult.

 

When temperature exceeds 80°F, the cure cycle of the adhesive shortens.  Therefore, watch the adhesive on the rollers closely for premature dry-out.  Dry-out can be minimized by keeping the rollcoater nip full of adhesive.

 

PROCESSING INTERACTIONS:  Be aware of the interrelationship between spread rate,  moisture content of the skin, assembly time, temperature and press time.  For example, with a shorter assembly time (e.g. 15 min.), lower spread rates may be used.  Conversely, for longer assembly times, a higher spread rate may be required.  Higher moisture content skins may require lower spread rates and longer press times.  The absorbency of the substrates also influences these variables.  Contact your Ashland Technical Representative for specific processing parameters at your facility.

<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

<!--[if gte mso 9]> CLEAN-UP:  Follow the clean-up procedures recommended by the rollcoater manufacturer.  Warm water (100°F)  makes clean-up easier.  The use of Thermaclean¹ resin emulsifier helps reduce cleaning time.  Thoroughly clean rolls, troughs, and in and out feed areas.

Release coatings can facilitate clean-up of metal surfaces.  The use of Bates Boothcoating² or Product No. 627³ has been successful

 

 

¹Trademark, Cook Composites & Polymers, Heath, OH; Phone:  (614) 929-2866

²Trademark, U.S. Coatings Corporation, Buffalo, NY; Phone: (716) 833-9366

³Trademark, Associated Chemists, Portland, OR; Phone: (503) 659-1708

<!--[if gte mso 9]>



You forgot to include the STAPLES "That was Easy " Button

Posted By the_postman on 07 Sep 2013 03:02 AM
<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 false false false MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 I am not suggesting that people make these to sell... If you live in an area where there are no building codes and you don't need to insure your structure, this might be just the ticket for you.