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jscottb Registered Users
Posts:7


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| 08/11/2008 10:46 AM |
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Hello Forum Participants!
Our interest/intention is to install radiant heating in our old house (100 years), located in northern NJ, which is in pretty good shape. The steam boiler is gone so we need to decide what to do and get make decisions shortly.
The house has about 1900 sq. ft. on two floors. Instead of just buying a new steam boiler, we think a gas boiler/high efficiency water heater to distribute the heat via new flooring/tubing may be the way to go. We would like to remove the existing radiators as they take up valuable space in the small rooms, especially upstairs. Nice flooring to replace some of the beat-up flooring is an expected benefit to the project too.
The flooring component of the project is a vexing part of our design planning at this point. Would the existing hardwood floors have to be removed for a new subfloor/tubing and new engineered flooring? Also there is an upstairs bathroom with an existing radiator, but tearing up the existing tile/install new pex, etc. isn't something we would like to do now.
Some of the other forums on this site debate electric/hydronic approaches to the radiant distribution. We're leaning toward hydronic but if an electronic solution makes sense, we would like to understand the factors that could apply to our situation. The new flexible electric mats/strips seem to offer a simpler installation vs. the hydronic requirements, however the low temperature hydronic configurations appear to be the standard approach for most houses.
Has anyone been involved in a project like this? Any information or advice would be appreciated!
Unfortunately (or probably fortunately), I won't be able to do much work myself due to the timeframe and the work load at my job.
Thanks, Scott |
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J. Scott Brown |
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BadgerBoilerMN Registered Users
Posts:92


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| 08/14/2008 5:15 AM |
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| You will need a heat load analysis, fuel cost analysis, and a professional installer. morganbadger@mchsi.com |
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MA www.badgerboilerservice.com |
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jscottb Registered Users
Posts:7


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| 08/22/2008 12:36 PM |
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| We've started some analysis of the flooring options and see a product named easyfloor from FloorHeat. We plan to It appeal to us as it appears to be straight-forward to install and with flexible for different layouts. Because we are retrofitting, does anyone know if it can be installled over the existing Parquet floors without sqweeks or later problems? Thx, Scott |
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J. Scott Brown |
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warmsmeallup Registered Users
Posts:83


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| 08/22/2008 1:59 PM |
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Hi Scott:
Since we only install electric, I will only speak to it.
If you want to use a line voltage product (i.e. wire mats) it MUST be in a mortar or thinset of some kind. Just installing it over your parquet flooring will not work unless you are planning on pouring a mortar. Since you are planning to use it as your primary source of heat, as Badger mentioned, a Heat Loss Calculation is manditory to correctly design any radiant system, whether electric or hydronic.
The only electric system that is compatible with all wood flooring installations with out any concerns is a product called Zmesh. It can be installed directly under any type of floor covering without effect to height. It can be nailed through anywhere without effecting the system or the element itself. You can install it under tile, carpet, solid or engineered wood, wide or short plank.
As with all in-floor radiant installations, water or electric, the main concern you should be keeping in mind when installing solid hardwood is that there is no moisture input to the areas that it is installed in. The heat and dry winter air will cause the wood to crack and/or shrink so you will need to humidify the space to maintain the manufacturers required moisture content.
Also keep in mind that radiant heat always "goes to the colder area first". If you install radiant heat in a floor over a basement that is not heated, you will loose a considerable amount of the heat generated downward if you don't insulate VERY well.
That's just a nutshell. If you have any more questions, don't hesitate to post them. |
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Comfort Radiant Heating |
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jscottb Registered Users
Posts:7


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| 08/25/2008 12:33 PM |
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Thanks for the info warmsmeallup. At this point, we are still evaluating flooring and hydronic products/services. For a hydronic system, we see GCS Flooring and EasyFloor panels that would be installed on top of our existing flooring. Does anyone have any insight how to compare the products? They seem to be about right for us. Thx, Scott |
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J. Scott Brown |
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warmsmeallup Registered Users
Posts:83


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| 08/25/2008 12:46 PM |
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Yup, my mistake. I thought I read that you were looking into another similarly named electric radiant product to Easyfloor.
Good luck! |
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Comfort Radiant Heating |
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jscottb Registered Users
Posts:7


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| 08/26/2008 5:40 PM |
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Hi Everyone,
Here's another vexing question coming from our analysis. It seems that the routing of the tube and placement of manifold from the basement to the second/third floors may be problematic. Has anyone ever install a small boiler/heater on the third floor and route the tubes down to the second floor? Would the tankless systems offer something here? I imagine there would be some special drainage arrangement in the case of a leak or blockage. Can someone let me know if this idea is too far out? Thx, Scott |
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J. Scott Brown |
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jscottb Registered Users
Posts:7


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| 08/31/2008 8:24 AM |
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| I've been informed that the manifold work is not as complex as initially described but the flooring part now is the most pressing issue again. Can anyone help here/tell tales of thier experiences or should I just call in the professionals to analyze the options? |
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J. Scott Brown |
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BillN Registered Users
Posts:38

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| 09/03/2008 9:00 AM |
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Looks like you have quite a project on the board. I am famillar with these kind of old houses. I grew up in one in Clifton. I currently live in Berkeley Hts. I think that you are on the right track. I dont think that you will get enough use from the old steam pipes to justify replacing the steam boiler. Radiant is the way to go for the 1st floor because you probably have access to the floor from below. The 2nd floor is harder. You mentioned replacing the floor. It seems a shame to me that you would cover up a parquet floor, unless its really crappy already. Usually they can be refinished to look almost like new. I would consider leaving the floor and pulling down the ceiling below and installing the radiant tubing there. Chances are that the plaster ceiling is cracking any way, so this will give you a chance to replace it with sheetrock. I think that the ceiling will be cheaper to replace than the floor anyway.
I have found that there could be some areas where you might need a little more heat than the radiant can provide. After you do the heat loads you will know better. Let me know if you need some help. Its not far from me.
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jscottb Registered Users
Posts:7


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| 09/03/2008 12:39 PM |
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| Thanks for the feedback BillN. Nice to know a local appreciates the variables that are relevant to the decision making and planning considerations. Making plans for an energy audit today and trying to figure the flooring issues. It may be too much to evaluate over the net and I'll keep you updated as information is presented. |
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J. Scott Brown |
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jscottb Registered Users
Posts:7


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| 09/14/2008 12:05 PM |
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| Here's the latest. Our efficency auditor and my wife like the forced air for us because the solution includes heat and a/c. The installation, at first blush, seems simplier and less costly. Our house needs some insulation work but we'll probably be done even if we go with radiant. Does anyone see any flaws in this approach? I liked the idea of radiant, but retrofitting for our house seems very costly. Thanks, Scott |
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J. Scott Brown |
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NRT.Rob Registered Users
Posts:384

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| 09/15/2008 10:12 AM |
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Of course, it is simpler and less costly.
It is also less efficient, less comfortable, and requires more energy to run, typically.
Depending on your envelope and heat loads, that may be more important or less important than in some other houses, but generally speaking in a retrofit situation you are not going to get all the way to "superinsulated" where the type of heat matter less (but still matters a bit) to your comfort and efficiency is less important as well. You might get pretty tight, but probably not "all the way". |
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-=Northeast Radiant Technology=- NRTradiant.com |
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