mydog8it
Registered Users
New Member
Posts:2
 |
| 12/02/2008 3:23 AM |
|
| I self installed a hydronic radiant floor system with 4 zones in a 200 year old farmhouse that keeps the house comfortable in the Pennsylvania winters. However, I retained the original boiler and am sickened by the politics of oil. I want a domestic fuel source for my boiler. What alternative fuels has anyone successfully employed for a boiler? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
radiantbarrier
Registered Users
New Member
Posts:44
|
| 12/02/2008 8:53 AM |
|
| Installed radiant in my home and then installed an outdoor wood furnace to hook into existing oil boiler. works great. oil only there for back up . Easy to install even in winter. very efficent and low emissions |
|
|
|
|
BadgerBoilerMN
Registered Users
Basic Member
Posts:311
|
| 12/02/2008 7:45 PM |
|
Research the cost of electricity, propane or the most clean, economical and North American...natural gas boiler.
A mod/con of course. |
|
MA
www.badgerboilerservice.com |
|
|
richfoster
Registered Users
New Member
Posts:3
|
| 12/02/2008 9:30 PM |
|
There are a tremendous amount of politics involved in anything that infuses so many jobs ,and so much money into the economy. Right now, you are dealing with a nieghborhood company, with alot of competition. Historically, the only fuel that has ever been close to the return on investment that #2 fuel has given you is natural gas....OH CANADA...That being said, you have the option of a multi fuel boiler block,that you can burn natural gas, oil, or propane, by just changing the burner.
I'm not sure if we are allowed to mention manufacturers names here? are we? A decent Heating contractor will be well versed in this practice. Any wet base boiler block can be fitted with a high efficiency gun burner. Think..LOW MASS,LOW WATER CONTENT,OUTDOOR RESETCONTROL... |
|
|
|
|
PanelCrafters
Registered Users
Veteran Member
Posts:1408
|
| 12/03/2008 7:34 AM |
|
Posted By richfoster on 12/02/2008 9:30 PM
I'm not sure if we are allowed to mention manufacturers names here? are we?
Sure! But, unfettered self promotion doesn't go over too well...
|
|
....jc
If you're not building with OSB SIPS(or ICF's), why are you building? |
|
|
Dana1
Registered Users
Advanced Member
Posts:702
|
| 12/03/2008 9:40 AM |
|
Biodiesel can be burned directly in your existing boiler. If you can find a local supplier, see if you can't get it without the federal & state highway taxes applied.
BTW: Natural gas is now being imported as well, and that is bound to increase in time. Most of the propane is an oil refining product- same politics as oil.
There are now several VERY efficient wood-pellet boilers on the market in Europe, and they're starting to show up in the US as well. google [wood pellet boiler], see if anybody is selling in your area. |
|
|
|
|
NRT.Rob
Registered Users
Advanced Member
Posts:733
|
| 12/03/2008 9:52 AM |
|
whoa, low mix biodiesel can be used in some cases, but many times a heating pro with an oil license will have to red tag a unit with biodiesel in it; it hasn't (last I knew) been rated as a fuel by any boiler manufacturers, which means it is not to code.
Also, any high mix biodiesel can destroy gaskets or seals in the system. I'm not sure exactly what needs to be replaced, but it's not as simple as just dumping a bunch of biodiesel in an oil tank and calling it a day. I believe it is fairly simple, but there is a little more to it ;) |
|
-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
NRTradiant.com |
|
|
BadgerBoilerMN
Registered Users
Basic Member
Posts:311
|
| 12/03/2008 10:07 AM |
|
| More than 90% of natural gas in produced on this continent and could easily go to 100% if the minority of misguided tree huggers would unchain themselves from the derricks. |
|
MA
www.badgerboilerservice.com |
|
|
Dana1
Registered Users
Advanced Member
Posts:702
|
| 12/03/2008 10:25 AM |
|
Posted By NRT.Rob on 12/03/2008 9:52 AM
whoa, low mix biodiesel can be used in some cases, but many times a heating pro with an oil license will have to red tag a unit with biodiesel in it; it hasn't (last I knew) been rated as a fuel by any boiler manufacturers, which means it is not to code.
Also, any high mix biodiesel can destroy gaskets or seals in the system. I'm not sure exactly what needs to be replaced, but it's not as simple as just dumping a bunch of biodiesel in an oil tank and calling it a day. I believe it is fairly simple, but there is a little more to it ;)
This sounds like the voice of experience- got any details to share? (I know of 2 people burnin' biodiesel in their heating boilers this season without modification to their systems, one of whom did so last season. If they're headin' for a cliff I'd like to be able to warn them off!)
I hear lots of rumors of people with issues burning biodiesel in their trucks, but have yet to see any details close up. (Could be their home-brew wasn't up to any standard, or perhaps there are some inherent issues with certain feedstocks or...???) There is a ski hill local to me that uses biodiesel as boiler fuel, snow-cat fuel, and compressor fuel without issues (yet), exact mix uncertain.
This could be a whole separate thread topic, if there is a knowledge base out there to tap.
|
|
|
|
|
Dana1
Registered Users
Advanced Member
Posts:702
|
| 12/03/2008 10:56 AM |
|
Posted By BadgerBoilerMN on 12/03/2008 10:07 AM
More than 90% of natural gas in produced on this continent and could easily go to 100% if the minority of misguided tree huggers would unchain themselves from the derricks.
Yabbut, then team-USA would be even MORE dependent upon Canuckistan & Mexico for energy supplies, eh? ;-)
Natural gas is, and will remain relatively cheap & plentiful. Coal seam gas can be very water-resource intensive/destructive, but there is more than enough of it in the US to power everything, cars & electrical grid included for centuries, if true "energy independence" is deemed the politically most-desirable.
As boiler fuel it doesn't get any cleaner than natural gas (at the point of burning, anyway). I prefer it personally, but then, I'm not too hung up on the politics.
The price volatility of oil alone is reason enough to avoid it when you can. The extremely low conversion-efficiency of biodiesel makes it a non-starter from an energy-policy point of view- it will not can not EVER replace oil for motor or boiler fuel on a national scale. For low temp space heating, you can get well over 40% conversion efficiency of sunlight <==> usable heat in the space, compared to ~0.01% conversion efficiency for biodiesel. Of course transporting & STORING energy as biodiesel is far easier & more space efficient than low-moderate temp water, but that's it's only advantage.
|
|
|
|
|
NRT.Rob
Registered Users
Advanced Member
Posts:733
|
| 12/03/2008 10:58 AM |
|
I don't know directly about biodiesel, just what I've been told by suppliers in my area, and things I've seen in forum posts by other boiler pros who received advisories from inspectors, etc..
I'm pretty sure the mods are simple, I just don't know exactly what they are. |
|
-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
NRTradiant.com |
|
|
richfoster
Registered Users
New Member
Posts:3
|
| 12/05/2008 10:28 PM |
|
ok
An Energy Kinetis, energykinetics.com with a beckett, carlin, or riello gas burner would serve your needs very well. dont take my word, ask around...and by the looks of it here may not be the place to get an intelligent answer....
Buderus buderus.net and Weil Mclain both make low mass low water content alloy base boilers, the GB142 and the Ultra
teledyne-laars, munckkin, burnham, peerless, warranty is not as goog as a standard cast iron boiler, but efficiency is considerably better
almost all boilers made today work well with after market controls , such as Tekmar tekmarcontrols.com
we all have our favorites and our reasons for them.
|
|
|
|
|
BillN
Registered Users
New Member
Posts:53
|
| 01/04/2009 9:49 AM |
|
It is my understanding that B20 (20%) can be used as a direct replacement for diesel with no side effects. I think that an oil guy that red-tags a boiler for this is unlikely to get paid for the house call.
Yanmar engines built after 1993 are OK for B100. I think that most engine mfgrs in the last 10 years have designed for biodiesel compatibility, i am not sure about boilers, but the only warnings that I have heard is about filters getting clogged right after changeover.
The issue with biodiesel is its detrimental effects on rubber products. Hoses mainly, but seals in more complicated systems like cars. I am not an oil guy, but a am familiar with oil burners. I can't think of any rubber hoses on the burners that I have seen. They typically use copper tubing.
Mydog8it- To the original question, if you want to change fuel, your only option is biodiesel. If you want to keep the boiler, the burner can be changed to gas or propane.
If you want something totally different how about a pellet boiler or a wood fired gassification boiler ? Wood pellets are green, domestic, recycled, and feed automatically. Cord stock requires manual labor to move the fuel around before its burned, but its probably the cheapest fuel. |
|
|
|
|
jklingel
Registered Users
New Member
Posts:48
|
| 02/05/2009 11:45 PM |
|
| Mydog: PA ought to have wood around, no? See hearth.com for wood gasification boilers. That may suit you real well, and then your oil boiler will be the back up. |
|
|
|
|
joe.ami
Registered Users
Veteran Member
Posts:1418
|
| 02/07/2009 9:14 AM |
|
Cheap operation cost, mostly domestic fuel source and available even if nat gas isn't= water to water geothermal. In some cases it may not cost much more than a wood boiler and has at least a $2000 tax credit currently available.
Joe |
|
Just a Mechanic;
Geothermal; Savings Underfoot |
|
|