mlennox
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| 02/28/2009 9:25 PM |
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I'm planning to build a new home with radiant hydronic flooring throughout. The upper floors will consist of plywood/OSB sub-floor, radiant PEX tubing stapled down gypcrete poured over the tubing and engineered wood flooring glued over gypcrete.
For the major cabinetry in the kitchen and the kitchen island, what is the general approach for the PEX tubing and poured floor? Do I install the PEX tubing everywhere with poured floor and finished wood even if cabinetry is going over top?
I was thinking it would make more sense to create a wood framing system on the floor where the cabinets and island will go and only place radiant tubing and pour the floor in the open areas.
Any advise on this would be much appreciated, thanks. |
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jmagill
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| 03/01/2009 6:38 AM |
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| We placed blocking in all those areas. You also need to make sure you do not place tubes in areas such as under appliances, too close to toilets, closets that you do not need heated. |
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mlennox
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| 03/01/2009 7:21 AM |
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Posted By jmagill on 03/01/2009 6:38 AM
We placed blocking in all those areas. You also need to make sure you do not place tubes in areas such as under appliances, too close to toilets, closets that you do not need heated.
Thanks for the response. What exactly do you mean by "blocking"? Sorry for my ignorance. :-)
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jmagill
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| 03/01/2009 7:32 AM |
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| We built wood platforms for cabinets etc. that would be the same level as the finished floor. It just needs to be an outline that you set the cabinets on. |
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jimmy48
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| 03/01/2009 9:50 AM |
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| i just went around my island and cabinets with pex but i poured the entire floor with slurry why waste the time building the floor up ? your really not saving any money |
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mlennox
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| 03/01/2009 12:22 PM |
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Posted By jimmy48 on 03/01/2009 9:50 AM
i just went around my island and cabinets with pex but i poured the entire floor with slurry why waste the time building the floor up ? your really not saving any money
So did you need to drill holes in the concrete after the fact for cabinet installation? In my mind the framing creates a nice visible delineation point for the installers to ensure nobody drills into the PEX tubing.
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mlennox
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| 03/01/2009 12:22 PM |
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Posted By jmagill on 03/01/2009 7:32 AM
We built wood platforms for cabinets etc. that would be the same level as the finished floor. It just needs to be an outline that you set the cabinets on.
Did you install your flooring over top of the wood platform under the cabinets?
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jmagill
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| 03/01/2009 12:28 PM |
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We used 2x material and just outlined the base of where the cabinets would be, then the cabinets went right on top on that. This left the floor under the cabinets free for drilling plumbing holes.
No wasted materials(flooring) and yes no chance of a misplaced nail. |
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jimmy48
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| 03/01/2009 1:09 PM |
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| all our plumbing was drilled trhough before we poured the slurry as far as hitting pex you wont because there isnt any under the cabinets |
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mlennox
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| 03/02/2009 9:23 AM |
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Posted By jimmy48 on 03/01/2009 1:09 PM
all our plumbing was drilled trhough before we poured the slurry as far as hitting pex you wont because there isnt any under the cabinets
What are the key differences between Slurry and Gypcrete?
How easy is it to drill and anchor into either of these after-the-fact? Perhaps I'm over-thinking things, but I had planned to create anchor plates for various things like cabinetry, metal stair stringers, etc. Should I bother worrying about this or just simply anchor stuff directly into the finished engineered wood floor and gypcrete?
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jmagill
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| 03/02/2009 10:45 AM |
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Posted By mlennox on 03/02/2009 9:23 AM
Posted By jimmy48 on 03/01/2009 1:09 PM
all our plumbing was drilled trhough before we poured the slurry as far as hitting pex you wont because there isnt any under the cabinets[/quote]
What are the key differences between Slurry and Gypcrete?
How easy is it to drill and anchor into either of these after-the-fact? Perhaps I'm over-thinking things, but I had planned to create anchor plates for various things like cabinetry, metal stair stringers, etc. Should I bother worrying about this or just simply anchor stuff directly into the finished engineered wood floor and gypcrete?
It is your house , what do you feel most comfortable with. My house would have wood anchor plates and sleepers to attach the flooring.
Remember that the bones of your home should not be skimped on. |
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mlennox
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| 03/02/2009 12:38 PM |
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Posted By jmagill on 03/02/2009 10:45 AM
Remember that the bones of your home should not be skimped on.
Well I'm going with ICF and radiant throughout, I wouldn't say I'm considering "skimping" on the bones. What I'm looking for is the pros and cons of both approaches.
One thing I would think that makes a complete floor gypcrete pour attractive is having a contiguous solid floor that is perhaps more sound proof than one with various framed openings for cabinetry, etc.
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jimmy48
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| 03/02/2009 5:41 PM |
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| mlennox the product i used was called thermal crete from a company called floor solutions check out there web site www.floorsolutions.com there in ontario but i believe you can get the same product in the US. They have various types of self levelling slurry(concrete). I was told by the company that thermal crete was mpa 20 equivilant. My cabinets are screwed to my wall which holds most of the weight Island is legged to the floor no problem drilling in the leg bolts and it is very sturdy. Jmagill is right its your house do what you feel is the best but i disagree with him that you need sleepers to attach an engineered wood floor to .They are a floating floor thats the whole point of useing a engineered floor . Now if you are useing solid hardwood like i did i agree you need sleepers so you can nail the wood floor to .Im very happy with the way i did it and would do things the exact same way again |
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jmagill
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| 03/02/2009 5:47 PM |
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Posted By jimmy48 on 03/02/2009 5:41 PM
mlennox the product i used was called thermal crete from a company called floor solutions check out there web site www.floorsolutions.com there in ontario but i believe you can get the same product in the US. They have various types of self levelling slurry(concrete). I was told by the company that thermal crete was mpa 20 equivilant. My cabinets are screwed to my wall which holds most of the weight Island is legged to the floor no problem drilling in the leg bolts and it is very sturdy. Jmagill is right its your house do what you feel is the best but i disagree with him that you need sleepers to attach an engineered wood floor to .They are a floating floor thats the whole point of useing a engineered floor . Now if you are useing solid hardwood like i did i agree you need sleepers so you can nail the wood floor to .Im very happy with the way i did it and would do things the exact same way again
Jmagill is female!
He said he was going to glue down the floor. Not always a good idea with gypcrete. It should be investigated more. That is why I suggested sleepers. I have seen lots of reports of the gypcrete breaking apart with glued down products. |
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jimmy48
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| 03/02/2009 7:51 PM |
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| lol i guess i should have said i disagree with him/her no offence intended |
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mlennox
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| 03/03/2009 7:14 AM |
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Posted By jmagill on 03/02/2009 5:47 PM
He said he was going to glue down the floor. Not always a good idea with gypcrete. It should be investigated more. That is why I suggested sleepers. I have seen lots of reports of the gypcrete breaking apart with glued down products.
From the Maxxon procedure guide (makers of Gypcrete), they have a specific section on glued down floor installations of Laminate or Parquet flooring. I'm assuming they would not recommend this if there were problems?
Glue-Down Installations
Maxxon® Corporation recommends
these adhesives: Bostik Ultra-Set™
Hardwood Adhesive, Bostik’s Best
Adhesive, Chemrex CX-1000, DriTac 7600
Urethane Adhesive or Franklin Titebond®
811 Advantage by Franklin International.
Other adhesives may also be compatible.
Before applying any adhesive, make
sure the underlayment is clean and has
passed a dryness test. Apply primers and
adhesives according to the manufacturer’s
instructions. If you have any questions
about the compatibility of primers and
adhesives perform a small test patch
installation. Let the test area set for 72
hours before removing the flooring.
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mlennox
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| 03/03/2009 7:31 AM |
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Posted By jimmy48 on 03/02/2009 5:41 PM
mlennox the product i used was called thermal crete from a company called floor solutions check out there web site www.floorsolutions.com there in ontario but i believe you can get the same product in the US. They have various types of self levelling slurry(concrete). I was told by the company that thermal crete was mpa 20 equivilant. My cabinets are screwed to my wall which holds most of the weight Island is legged to the floor no problem drilling in the leg bolts and it is very sturdy. Jmagill is right its your house do what you feel is the best but i disagree with him that you need sleepers to attach an engineered wood floor to .They are a floating floor thats the whole point of useing a engineered floor . Now if you are useing solid hardwood like i did i agree you need sleepers so you can nail the wood floor to .Im very happy with the way i did it and would do things the exact same way again
I'll check out the Thermal Crete stuff. I actually live in Ontario so I'll probably be able to find distributors easily.
As for engineered floors, most of the ones I've looked at are designed to be either floated on a foam padding or glued/nailed down to a sub-floor. I don't particularly like the feel of a floating installation; feels to springy/spongy, not like a real hardwood floor. I'd prefer to glue it down so that it at least feels like real hardwood.
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Brawler
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| 03/03/2009 5:18 PM |
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| Has anyone compared gype crete to light weight concrete? What are the biggest differences between the two. I just ordered my floor trusses with the extra weight of 2 inch of lw concrete factored in their design, 14" trusses probably with double bottom cord. Thanks |
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Blueridge company
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| 03/04/2009 11:27 PM |
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We install pex in light weight cement. I prefer it over gype crete, in smaller homes under 2500 sq ft as it generaly will cost less, advantages are tile work can go directly on top.for a traditional nail down try 2x4 flat sleepers 1 inch on center, in fill with lightweight. The light weight mix is 7.5 sack cement, pea gravel, and fibermesh fiberglass, 1 sack per yd. You will need a 2 inch line pump and flat workers. Pump operator will have crew, west coast price is about 1.25 placed.
As to pipe or slurry under cabinets, pipe is cheep, put it under the cabinets, it will only ad heat mass, on the island pay attention to the plumbing, down draft stove and other utilities.
Dan |
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Brawler
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| 03/05/2009 6:27 AM |
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| Thanks for the reply Dan, How thick do you typically pour LW Concrete and what do you put between the concrete and subfloor? I am planning on putting down 6mil poly. Thanks again, michael |
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