jonr
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| 05/26/2009 8:34 AM |
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I'm looking for a design for hydronic radiant walls. All interior, non load bearing.
Would this work?
Build a normal 2x4 wall with drywall, but set the 2x4s sideways so the wall is only 1.5" thick. Put plastic on both sides and hydronic tubing in the middle. Screw on drywall. Fill the wall cavity with gypcrete or lightweight concrete.
Weight should not be an issue on a slab floor but might be for a wood floor. Side effect - very soundproof.
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Blueridge company
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| 05/26/2009 9:01 AM |
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Sounds like a lot of work, Why not use 2x4 standard framing and make the first lower 4 feet a horizontal loop system using sleepers and heat transfer plates, RHT floor panel system would work well in this application, no pipe above 48 inch's to protect from future picture frame nails. 1x2 firring above the 48 inch level to get back to wall thickness.
Alternative would be when framing rip off 3/4"the lower 48" of the 2x4 stud leaving the pocket for the pipe, plates and turns.
You would still need 2x4 sleepers every 12 inches horizontally to support the heat plates, pipe would then snap in and be held in place waiting for sheet rock cover. Pipe would be on an 8 inch pattern using this system.
Dan |
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dmaceld
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| 05/27/2009 12:02 AM |
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Posted By jonr on 05/26/2009 8:34 AM
I'm looking for a design for hydronic radiant walls. All interior, non load bearing.
Why? Interior walls don't lose heat to the outdoors. There's a reason heat registers and radiators are placed at the exterior walls, and why radiant floor tube spacing is tighter near the exterior wall. That's where a great part of the heat loss occurs, especially windows. Imagine yourself standing in a room with a large window and a heated interior wall. It shouldn't take long to figure out which side of your body is going to feel cooler, and which side will feel warmer.
But then again, on average you might be quite comfortable!!! 
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Building house - what a way to spend retirement! It's done! We're living in it! |
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jonr
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| 05/27/2009 3:45 PM |
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The body is sensitive to mean radiant temperature (from any direction) and the evenness of it. But heating an outside wall adds around 50% to the conductive winter heat loss through the wall. So IMO, floors + interior radiant walls are the best bang for the buck. Even though it isn't even, it will be far better than convention air heating and better than just radiant floor.
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NRT.Rob
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| 05/27/2009 3:49 PM |
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1x3 strapping perpendicular to the studs on the inside face. way easier. I think your envelope calcs are way off on the conductive losses though. If what you said was true, radiant floors over cold spaces would barely work. relative R valve on either side of the radiant emitter has an effect, and the comparison here is R19+ wall vs R-tiny for drywall.
walls are not the greatest way to go though. Ceilings. If not ceilings, radiators, IMHO are better than radiant wall. you can't forget and block them with furniture and you won't drive a nail in hanging a picture, anchoring a bookcase, or what have you. |
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-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
NRTradiant.com |
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jonr
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| 05/27/2009 8:19 PM |
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35 degrees outside to 65 inside wall = delta T of 30.
35 degrees outside to 95F inside wall = delta T of 60.
Conductive heat flow is proportional to delta T - so can be double the heat loss if you heat outside walls or ceilings.
RHT grooved plywood and aluminum heat plates seems like a good suggestion. Only loss is a little floor space and the sound deadening of concrete.
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NRT.Rob
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| 05/28/2009 8:00 AM |
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| yes, you are making up numbers. your entire wall is not going to be 95F inside surface temp. more like half of the wall area, at 80 to 85 typically, or something like that is more typical (less, if you're maintaining 65 degrees instead of 70), perhaps with the addition of some internal walls to help as well. But even using the inside surface of the wall as a gauge is, at best, a rough approximation. That surface is losing energy to the room as well, just as the hotter radiant element is transferring energy to the sheetrock. It's much more complicated than you give it credit for, but suffice to say, your numbers are high. |
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-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
NRTradiant.com |
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Blueridge company
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| 05/28/2009 8:30 AM |
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Here is a link to some photos of the RHT floor panel system. The sum total of parts for this system are less than $2.50 sq ft. Parts included in estimate are pipe, manifold, plates, turns and locally purchased 3/4 plywood filler @ $25.00 sheet.
link; http://www.blueridgecompany.com/image/view/527
Dan |
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NRT.Rob
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| 05/28/2009 8:43 AM |
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| plates are good. but no need for the rest. see attached for the strapping detail: this is in a ceiling, same detail works for walls.
strapping is dirt cheap stuff. |
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-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
NRTradiant.com |
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Blueridge company
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| 05/28/2009 8:53 AM |
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Nice radiant ceiling photo Rob, I like it,
Dan |
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tangent
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| 06/02/2009 4:43 AM |
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| My friend has a new ICF house but also some inefficient steel and leaded casement French doors and windows...single glazed. When we installed staple up under floor radiant, we kept all loops to between 240-250 lf. We drilled 1 1/2" holes through the center of studs (on walls adjacent to the two sets of French doors and ran 1/2" PEX from the floor loops. We have an average of 8 oc spacing. Then stapled radiant foil 1 1/2" down from the underfloor and to back of the stud walls to force the heat in the direction where needed. There is also a triple window over the kitchen sink (same steel and lead). We ran PEX in the soffit above the sink and handled it like the floors and walls but the tube spacing is more like 4" oc there. We haven't had a chance to test it yet in winter weather as it is just now getting finished. I'm guessing that the walls will help keep the doors from zapping the floor heat......same with the radiant ceiling above the sink. I'm not concerned about nails because most pictures can be hung with 4-6d nails. Good luck! |
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