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Green_Giant
Registered Users
Posts:4
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| 06/04/2008 10:42 PM |
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Is WaterFurnace a better system compared to EarthLinked DX?
From my research, the efficiency ratings seem to be comparable for the
WaterFurnace Envision series and the EarthLinked DX series(except if temperatures are at different values. At the
same time, the WaterFurnace systems also seem more complicated to
install, requires more electricity to run. The WaterFurnace also seem
to be exagerating efficiency rates with their new 5.0 COP system, but
that is only on a small 2 ton system if I am not mistaken. Is there
any benefit of doing a WaterFurnace system over a DX system.
What are some of the regular maintenance that is associated with both systems. I remember reading something about having to purge the system, is this something done regularly.
Does anybody know the electrical requirements for both systems?
Thanks
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engineer
Registered Users
Posts:448
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| 06/05/2008 9:52 AM |
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Waterfurnace is but one brand of 'conventional' water-sourced heat pump. There are half a dozen other leading brands. COP and EER from any system is highly dependent on local conditions and the particular details of its installation. DX systems utilize a different (though not necessarily better or more efficient) design wherein refrigerant tubing is placed in direct contact with the ground source.
Brand and design are less important than having a local competent designer and installer. Either an Earthlink or Waterfurnace, properly designed and installed, will result in an HVAC system much more efficient and comfortable than conventional systems. On the other hand, any brand of system can be horribly designed and badly installed, resulting in high cost, inefficiency, and owner anguish.
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Without data, you only have an opinion. |
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tuffluckdriller
Registered Users
Posts:416
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| 06/06/2008 10:48 AM |
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Well said.
With the Waterfurnace getting a COP of 5 (or any other water loop system) they usually only achieve that when using an open loop. This means they pump and dump the water. They take it from the ground via a well, from a spring, or maybe even a pond. Then they take the heat out of it and dump it back into the ground, pond, stream, etc...
For closed loops, I don't know of any water loop system that gets as high of efficiencies as EarthLinked DX systems.
The advantage you'd maybe have of the water based system over the EarthLinked system could be if you do have water available to pump and dump. However, you'd want to be sure that it's very clean water. Otherwise, you'd be looking at a pump/loop maintenance headache.
As for the EarthLinked maintenance, you're required to keep the air filter clean. THAT'S ALL! |
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Clark Timothy (clark@pinksdx.com)
VP sales, Tuff Luck Geothermal Drilling
Geothermal, Heating and Cooling that's Dirt Cheap! |
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doctj
Registered Users
Posts:13
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| 06/06/2008 6:55 PM |
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Posted By engineer on 06/05/2008 9:52 AM
Brand and design are less important than having a local competent designer and installer. Either an Earthlink or Waterfurnace, properly designed and installed, will result in an HVAC system much more efficient and comfortable than conventional systems. On the other hand, any brand of system can be horribly designed and badly installed, resulting in high cost, inefficiency, and owner anguish.
Spot on advice. In my situation I went with a climatemaster system because the installer had 14 yrs of experience(the most of all bids), was located the closest and in addition to the usual temperature guarantees, also writes in the contract that they'll pay for hotel accomodation if you can't stay in the house due to geothermal/conventional system failure.
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geodean
Registered Users
Posts:652
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| 06/06/2008 7:15 PM |
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Posted By doctj on 06/06/2008 6:55 PM
in addition to the usual temperature guarantees, also writes in the contract that they'll pay for hotel accomodation if you can't stay in the house due to geothermal/conventional system failure.
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Dewayne Dean
PalaceGeothermal.com
Why settle for 90% when you can have 400%
We heat and cool with dirt!
visit- http://welserver.com/WEL0114/- to see my system |
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engineer
Registered Users
Posts:448
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| 06/06/2008 11:08 PM |
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Good question indeed - If the guaranteed temp concerns return water on a closed I can't think of a more ironclad way for an installer to back the design and installation of a closed loop system than to warrant that return water will never be above or below stated limits. That plus the usual J, D, and S calcs - meeting design indoor temps on a design day.
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Without data, you only have an opinion. |
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doctj
Registered Users
Posts:13
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| 06/07/2008 9:20 AM |
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Here it is
*24-hour
service guarantee: If you have a problem during the guarantee period we will
have cooling or heating in your home within 24 hours or we will pay for you to
spend the night in a hotel
*The
cooling system will provide at the thermostat a 75°F indoor temperature on a
95°F summer day.
*The
heating system will provide at the thermostat a 70°F indoor temperature on a
10°F winter day, with a 15 m.p.h. wind velocity. If it fails to meet these standards,
modifications or replacement will be made and if necessary, a new system will
be installed at no additional cost to the homeowner.
*Investment
Guarantee
*Lifetime
Ductwork
*Lifetime
Workmanship
Posted By geodean on 06/06/2008 7:15 PM Posted By doctj on 06/06/2008 6:55 PM
in addition to the usual temperature guarantees, also writes in the contract that they'll pay for hotel accomodation if you can't stay in the house due to geothermal/conventional system failure.
[/quote]
[/quote]
Just curious what kind of temperature guarantees did they give you?
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geodean
Registered Users
Posts:652
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| 06/07/2008 9:29 AM |
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That is impressive.
Now can you explain the * Investment Guarantee?
Where do you live?
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Dewayne Dean
PalaceGeothermal.com
Why settle for 90% when you can have 400%
We heat and cool with dirt!
visit- http://welserver.com/WEL0114/- to see my system |
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doctj
Registered Users
Posts:13
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| 06/07/2008 6:05 PM |
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Posted By geodean on 06/07/2008 9:29 AM
That is impressive.
Now can you explain the * Investment Guarantee?
Where do you live?
Investment Guarantee:At some point he's going to estimate our electricity bill should be in a certain range, calculate an ROI and guarantee it.
Central North Carolina
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engineer
Registered Users
Posts:448
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| 06/08/2008 11:54 AM |
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Impressive guarantee, but not bullet-proof - here's my take:
1) Heating, cooling or hotel? Easy - in event of failure they loan a few window air conditioners or space heaters, depending on season. That is still excellent service, just keep in mind their alternatives for meeting that committment.
2) Meeting the cooling spec is easy if they oversize a ton or so - beware that. In NC, with its humid summers you'll want a system sized and designed for good dehumidification. Oversized systems in humid climates effectively end up with two thermostat settings: 'Hot and muggy' or 'cold and clammy'
3) Meeting the heating spec may involve use of uneconomical strip heaters (resistive elements in ductwork). Incorporating occasional use of strips is OK, but understand the significance of using them (3-5 times greater operating expense)
Getting the system and is ductwork sized, designed, and installed correctly for economic, quiet, and comfortable operation isn't easy, but is crucial for your satisfaction. Given the cost of these systems and the impact they have on your life, getting all aspects right is vital
Installer experience and happy references are more important than a pretty guarantee or perceived quality of any particular brand.
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Without data, you only have an opinion. |
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doctj
Registered Users
Posts:13
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| 06/08/2008 9:16 PM |
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Posted By engineer on 06/08/2008 11:54 AM
Impressive guarantee, but not bullet-proof - here's my take:
1) Heating, cooling or hotel? Easy - in event of failure they loan a few window air conditioners or space heaters, depending on season. That is still excellent service, just keep in mind their alternatives for meeting that committment.
2) Meeting the cooling spec is easy if they oversize a ton or so - beware that. In NC, with its humid summers you'll want a system sized and designed for good dehumidification. Oversized systems in humid climates effectively end up with two thermostat settings: 'Hot and muggy' or 'cold and clammy'
3) Meeting the heating spec may involve use of uneconomical strip heaters (resistive elements in ductwork). Incorporating occasional use of strips is OK, but understand the significance of using them (3-5 times greater operating expense)
Getting the system and is ductwork sized, designed, and installed correctly for economic, quiet, and comfortable operation isn't easy, but is crucial for your satisfaction. Given the cost of these systems and the impact they have on your life, getting all aspects right is vital
Installer experience and happy references are more important than a pretty guarantee or perceived quality of any particular brand.
No guarantees are bullet proof, this installer had the combination of price,experience,good references to seal the deal. The DXand waterfurnace installers had none of these. |
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engineer
Registered Users
Posts:448
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| 06/08/2008 11:11 PM |
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Given that, it sounds as if you made the right choice.
Many of the major components in HVAC systems are either identical or similar across brands: Compressors, blowers, contactors, heat exchangers, reversing valves, even thermostats, so differences between brands become minimal. The major HVAC brand manufacture few or none of the components - they buy them and braze them together, then enclose the lot in a sheet metal box painted by them in their colors. |
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Without data, you only have an opinion. |
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