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WhirlWind
Posts:0
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| 09/29/2008 8:13 PM |
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| I am going to build an ICF home and have solar energy and I was wondering wether or not to go with a geo heat pump Does anyone have any advise..... |
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joe.ami
Registered Users
Posts:370
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| 09/29/2008 11:12 PM |
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Your question is awfully broad. I sell geo with a keen eye toward return on investment and frankly believe it's payback is superior to any insulation or extra pane of glass. But without size of house, geographic knowledge, sf, acerage...
I'm speaking in terms as broad as the question.
Joe |
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WhirlWind
Posts:0
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| 09/29/2008 11:36 PM |
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| I am looking at about 3500 sq feet in central texas around austin. I have 71 acres with a 5 acre pond close to the home site. I am wondering if it is more efficient than conventional heat pumps. My whole house is basically going to be unconventional. Ihope you can give me some idea of what kind of cost I may be looking at. I know that you may not be able to give me an estimate but may be a ball park I hope. Thanks |
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geodean
Registered Users
Posts:590
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| 09/30/2008 12:11 AM |
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How deep is your pond?
What is the heat load on your house both summer and winter?
Give us some facts, we can give you some numbers.
There is no doubt that geothermal is more a lot more efficient than conventional heat pumps. There is also no doubt that geothermal costs more.
There is a wealth of info spread all over the web about geo systems. If you have done any research at all, you will know how efficient geo systems are compared to other systems.
There is a post pinned at the top of this thread. I would suggest you go there and learn the basics and then come back with specific questions.
Coming here and asking if geo works is kind of like asking is the sun warms the earth. The answers to both are obvious.
Based on what you have given us so far, I can say that a geo system will cost you between $14000 and $56000. If you want a better number, then we need better info.
You can go here and here to find installers in your area. You really need to find someone local to size and price your system.
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Dewayne Dean
PalaceGeothermal.com
Why settle for 90% when you can have 400%
We heat and cool with dirt!
visit- http://welserver.com/WEL0114/- to see my system |
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183eej
Registered Users
Posts:61
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| 09/30/2008 6:20 PM |
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Posted By WhirlWind on 09/29/2008 11:36 PM
I am looking at about 3500 sq feet in central texas around austin. I have 71 acres with a 5 acre pond close to the home site. I am wondering if it is more efficient than conventional heat pumps. My whole house is basically going to be unconventional. Ihope you can give me some idea of what kind of cost I may be looking at. I know that you may not be able to give me an estimate but may be a ball park I hope. Thanks A ground source heat pump is considerably more efficient than conventional heat pump. Since you haven't built yet, I would recommend having a load calc and energy audit completed based on your drawings. Chris Wiebolt, with www.Tradewinds-at.com out of Waco did this for me last year and sized my system perfectly. We compared the efficiency of the Earthlinked geothermal system to an 18 SEER heat pump and the Earthlinked equipment had a pay back of 2.5 years and an ROI of 30%. Usage over the past 12 months for the geo system is tracking very closely to Chris' energy audit projection so I am confident with the comparative to the 18 SEER heat pump.
Given the blazing hot summers we have in Texas, I am not sure about the pond loops. In our part of the country, a drought can go a long time and, accordingly, presents a risk factor for water levels and temperature most other areas don't have to consider.
Current rule of thumb on price is anywhere from $5K to $10K per ton. ICF construction is about as good as it gets for a thermal envelop so you might get upwards of 1,200 SF per ton which saves considerably on equipment. I stick built with 2x6s, radiant barrier, good windows, spray foam and the geo system and was able to get 940 SF per ton so I would think it is a pretty safe bet you could get 1,000 SF per ton with ICF.
First cost on geothermal is certainly more than conventional heat pumps but the performance improvement is so significant the monthly payment on the extra amount you have to borrow to buy geothermal is about a 1/4th of the amount you save every month so it is a cash flow positive solution in the very first month.
In Texas, geothermal satisfies the Comptroller's definition of a solar energy device which makes it exempt from property taxes. And as energy prices continue to go up, this will become more and more significant. There are more good things about geo I can prattle about but the bottom line it's the way to go if you want to insulate yourself from the electric and gas bill increases that are trickling down our way. |
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Dale Walker
EarthTap Energy
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a0128958
Registered Users
Posts:183
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| 10/08/2008 2:32 PM |
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Posted By 183eej on 09/30/2008 6:20 PM
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In Texas, geothermal satisfies the Comptroller's definition of a solar energy device which makes it exempt from property taxes...
Dale, what does this mean, and is it applicable to individual home owners (versus busines owners)?
Many thanks,
Bill |
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senecarr
Registered Users
Posts:158
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| 10/08/2008 2:49 PM |
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Bill, if Texas is like several other states, they have consider solar devices tax exempt.
What that means is if installed, normally, the cost of such equipment should be added to the home's value and used for purposes of multiply by the milleage rate in the area, same as if you put an addition on your house. So, say you put a 500 sq ft addition on your house. Local assessor would take the "value" of that addition (roughly the cost of adding it, maybe more or less depending on the assessor's methods) and add it to the total value of your home. So now your house is taxed as a more valuable house.
Several states have rules that the assessor must not add in the value of the solar panels, even though it does generally make the house more valuable (lower cost of ownership, the panels have a value, etc).
In my case, MI doesn't seem to have the rule, despite the Governor's constant claims that she's interested in bringing renewable energy jobs to the area. So, for me, I'm looking at probably part of the cost of my install being added to the value of the house, and being taxed on it for the rest of the life of the house. |
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a0128958
Registered Users
Posts:183
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| 10/08/2008 3:10 PM |
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Senecarr, this is helpful!
Looks like I need to check to see if my home's assessed valuation went up due to replacing my conventional HVAC unit with my geothermal units last year. And if so, I need to request the increased valuation to be removed.
Many thanks!
Best regards,
Bill |
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senecarr
Registered Users
Posts:158
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| 10/08/2008 4:02 PM |
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Posted By a0128958 on 10/08/2008 3:10 PM Senecarr, this is helpful!
Looks like I need to check to see if my home's assessed valuation went up due to replacing my conventional HVAC unit with my geothermal units last year. And if so, I need to request the increased valuation to be removed.
Many thanks!
Best regards,
Bill
Good luck. Counties don't often don't like to give up revenue even if they didn't make a mistake. I would certainly wish my state had similar laws about renewables property. I guess my best bet would be to forward half my bill to my neighbor, seeing as he's decided to try to control what I can and can't do with my property. Sorry, bitterness on my mind.
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183eej
Registered Users
Posts:61
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| 10/08/2008 4:47 PM |
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Posted By a0128958 on 10/08/2008 2:32 PM
Posted By 183eej on 09/30/2008 6:20 PM
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In Texas, geothermal satisfies the Comptroller's definition of a solar energy device which makes it exempt from property taxes... Dale, what does this mean, and is it applicable to individual home owners (versus busines owners)? Many thanks, Bill
Before I get wound up, first let me state that geo being a solar energy device is my interpretation of the law. The State Energy Conservation Office is very candid in that the definition of a solar energy device according the the 1987 law is very broad. and when I reviewed it, the language appeared to support my interprecontention. I called the Comptroller's office in Austin and they have never thought about it before so this is new ground we're plowing.
But I see this as a storm on the horizon for Texans. County appraisal districts assess the value of real property by looking for comparable sales in the general vicinity. Unfortunately, they don't know if a home has a "solar energy device" installed or not. That information is not listed anywhere because it is not required. Collectively, however, as geothermal become more widely adopted, it is my contention that the values for homes with geothermal will increase because electric rates are brutalizing everyone. The tax credits and TXU incentives will accelerate this I think too. If the value of a home with geo goes up, it will increase the assessed value for all the comparable homes. And the people without geo will not be pleased to learn this, I am certain.
From the geo homeowner's perspective, however, I think the solar exemption certificate needs to be filed so, at least, it is recorded in the tax records that the home has a "solar energy device" in the home. Then the homeowner/business property owner will be in a position to challenge the appraisal and force the appraisal district to look for comps with a "solar energy device" rather than all homes that are comparable in all other respects.
I have talked to an ad valorem tax consultant in Dallas about this and they were scratching their heads so this may be a colorful chapter for the geothermal story. We'll see.
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Dale Walker
EarthTap Energy
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a0128958
Registered Users
Posts:183
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| 10/08/2008 11:00 PM |
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Dale, very interesting, and very helpful.
I plan to pursue.
Many thanks!
Best regards,
Bill |
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joe.ami
Registered Users
Posts:370
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| 10/09/2008 12:18 AM |
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Seneca (and others in MI) no worries, most assessors do not assign additional value to homes with geo. only those with nat. gas.
J |
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senecarr
Registered Users
Posts:158
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| 10/09/2008 10:20 AM |
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Posted By joe.ami on 10/09/2008 12:18 AM
Seneca (and others in MI) no worries, most assessors do not assign additional value to homes with geo. only those with nat. gas.
J
I'm inclined to think they may try to rate me up for anything they can because the price I bought the house at really lowers the taxes they can get out of me. |
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