SteveStep
 New Member
 Posts:26
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| 08 Feb 2009 10:52 PM |
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I am seeing condensation on my source water lines and frost on refrigerant lines inside my unit. The ground temperature in my area should be around 50 deg F, however and I am seeing EWT of 34.2 deg F and LWT of 32.4. I am using 1" slinky pipe buried 5-6 feet horizontally. Is it common for the Ground Temp and the Geo Water Temp to be this great of a difference? What causes this? How can I prevent this? |
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joe.ami
 Veteran Member
 Posts:4377

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| 08 Feb 2009 11:04 PM |
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Steve, I'm not sure I'd expect a 50 degree ground water temp at 5-6 feet, especially as you are drawing heat from it at a high rate. However I'm not sure I like your temp diff. between EWT and LWT. Are you confident that these are good numbers? Can you get us the In and Out air temps? Make sure you are on 2nd stage with no aux. coil for this measurement. Joe |
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Joe Hardin www.amicontracting.com We Dig Comfort! www.doityourselfgeothermal.com Dig Your Own Comfort! |
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Palace Geothermal
 Veteran Member
 Posts:1609
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| 08 Feb 2009 11:13 PM |
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Steve,
the reason your loop temp is low is the fact that you have been taking heat out of the ground. It is a common misconception that the ground can replenish the heat as fast as the heat pump can pull it out.
Joe is right, you should see a bigger spread between EWT and LWT. What brand and model is your heat pump? Can you find out the gpm through your loop? |
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Dewayne Dean <br>www.PalaceGeothermal.com<br>Why settle for 90% when you can have 400%<br>We heat and cool with dirt!<br>visit- http://welserver.com/WEL0114/- to see my system |
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SteveStep
 New Member
 Posts:26
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| 08 Feb 2009 11:19 PM |
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I have a Florida Heat Pump ES049. Today after a nice 3-4 day warm spell i have the following data: First Stage Heat RAT 73.5 SAT 86.2 EWT 38.4 LWT 35.4 Flow 11.96 GPM Second Stage Heat RAT 73.5 SAT 88.3 EWT 38.6 LWT 34.5 Flow 11.92 GPM |
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Palace Geothermal
 Veteran Member
 Posts:1609
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| 08 Feb 2009 11:23 PM |
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Steve, your system is doing great. Where do you live? How many feet of slinky pipe do you have? |
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Dewayne Dean <br>www.PalaceGeothermal.com<br>Why settle for 90% when you can have 400%<br>We heat and cool with dirt!<br>visit- http://welserver.com/WEL0114/- to see my system |
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joe.ami
 Veteran Member
 Posts:4377

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| 08 Feb 2009 11:29 PM |
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Is there a performance chart in your manual? J |
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Joe Hardin www.amicontracting.com We Dig Comfort! www.doityourselfgeothermal.com Dig Your Own Comfort! |
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SteveStep
 New Member
 Posts:26
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| 08 Feb 2009 11:30 PM |
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Outside of Pittsburgh PA. I have 4800 feet of slinky 6 trenches 5 ft wide 5 ft deep 800 ft of 1" pipe per trench. I have dumped around $400 into flow meters and temperature probes to get this information because the frost on the refrigeration dryer inside the unit scared me insane. You see my numbers and say the system is doing great. Can i get a refund? LOL. Does frost on the dryer worry you? |
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joe.ami
 Veteran Member
 Posts:4377

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| 08 Feb 2009 11:32 PM |
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Frost is part of refrigeration process, but can sometimes indicate trouble. J |
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Joe Hardin www.amicontracting.com We Dig Comfort! www.doityourselfgeothermal.com Dig Your Own Comfort! |
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SteveStep
 New Member
 Posts:26
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| 08 Feb 2009 11:35 PM |
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How important is meeting the required 12 GPM? |
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SteveStep
 New Member
 Posts:26
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| 08 Feb 2009 11:39 PM |
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Performance chart for my unit says i am not within the ranges: First Stage Water Temp Change 4-5 deg F Air Temp Change 17-21 deg F Second Stage Water Temp Change 5-6 deg F Air Temp Change 19-23 deg F |
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Palace Geothermal
 Veteran Member
 Posts:1609
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| 08 Feb 2009 11:41 PM |
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If your delta T was higher..like 15° instead of 4°, then you would need to increase the flow. Since your delta T is 4-5°, you don't need to worry about the flow. |
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Dewayne Dean <br>www.PalaceGeothermal.com<br>Why settle for 90% when you can have 400%<br>We heat and cool with dirt!<br>visit- http://welserver.com/WEL0114/- to see my system |
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Palace Geothermal
 Veteran Member
 Posts:1609
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| 08 Feb 2009 11:44 PM |
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You are a few degrees short on the air temp change. Increasing your loop flow will not help you. Is it keeping your house warm? How have your power bills been? |
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Dewayne Dean <br>www.PalaceGeothermal.com<br>Why settle for 90% when you can have 400%<br>We heat and cool with dirt!<br>visit- http://welserver.com/WEL0114/- to see my system |
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SteveStep
 New Member
 Posts:26
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| 08 Feb 2009 11:49 PM |
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I am generally satisfied with the air handler side the frost scared me insane but if you say it is normally i want to know at what point i should be afraid of frost? My heating problems this year stared with a water to water unit Florida Heat Pump WP036. The compressor went in November and I have been dealing with Warrenty claims and in talking to FHP i was told that i wasnt getting proper flow to the unit. It requires 7 GPM and i am gettign 5.43 GPM. So that problem put the fear in me since that unit is a luxury and the air handler is a necessity. |
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SteveStep
 New Member
 Posts:26
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| 08 Feb 2009 11:57 PM |
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Once i replaced the Compressor i found that both units ran fine independently. However when running at the same time the Water to Water Unit (WP036) would freeze up on the dryers and the unit would stop producing heat. The only thing that linked the two units was the Flow Center. This is why i was under the impression that low flow caused frost and frost caused the unit to stop producing heat. |
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SteveStep
 New Member
 Posts:26
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| 08 Feb 2009 11:59 PM |
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sorry the 5.43 GPM was with the WP036 running independently. |
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Palace Geothermal
 Veteran Member
 Posts:1609
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| 09 Feb 2009 12:00 AM |
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so do you have one flow center and two heat pumps?
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Dewayne Dean <br>www.PalaceGeothermal.com<br>Why settle for 90% when you can have 400%<br>We heat and cool with dirt!<br>visit- http://welserver.com/WEL0114/- to see my system |
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Palace Geothermal
 Veteran Member
 Posts:1609
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| 09 Feb 2009 12:02 AM |
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It sounds like your flow center can provide enough flow for one or the other but not both at the same time.
If this is the case, you need more pump
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Dewayne Dean <br>www.PalaceGeothermal.com<br>Why settle for 90% when you can have 400%<br>We heat and cool with dirt!<br>visit- http://welserver.com/WEL0114/- to see my system |
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Palace Geothermal
 Veteran Member
 Posts:1609
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| 09 Feb 2009 12:03 AM |
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Or separate flow centers |
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Dewayne Dean <br>www.PalaceGeothermal.com<br>Why settle for 90% when you can have 400%<br>We heat and cool with dirt!<br>visit- http://welserver.com/WEL0114/- to see my system |
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joe.ami
 Veteran Member
 Posts:4377

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| 09 Feb 2009 12:05 AM |
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You don't seem quite up to snuff. Based on that, but... what GPM is it based on? Is the filter clean? I'm ok with the gpm, it's important, but we can round it up. That's a lot of loop in the ground. J |
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Joe Hardin www.amicontracting.com We Dig Comfort! www.doityourselfgeothermal.com Dig Your Own Comfort! |
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Palace Geothermal
 Veteran Member
 Posts:1609
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| 09 Feb 2009 12:12 AM |
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are your heat pumps in series or parallel with the flow center? |
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Dewayne Dean <br>www.PalaceGeothermal.com<br>Why settle for 90% when you can have 400%<br>We heat and cool with dirt!<br>visit- http://welserver.com/WEL0114/- to see my system |
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