|
|
geo fan
Registered Users
Basic Member
Posts:395
 |
|
ajsmama
Registered Users
New Member
Posts:28
|
| 05/18/2009 8:49 PM |
|
Thanks - I always figured the EnergyStar guides and settings were for conventional heating systems. I know it makes sense to set temp lower in winter during the night (at least downstairs - we can do upstairs too if use lots of blankets like in old house with oil heat). But the problem was that if we use 1 of the 4 daily periods to setback, then we only have 3 periods to come up, and installer said try not to do 2 degrees or more at a time. So we ended up trying 1 degree every 45 minutes trying not to kick on Aux Heat, but that didn't really seem to make a difference, since I could only set it back 3 degrees.
Now, with IAQ, is this unnecessary? Could I set the stat to 63 at night, then bring it to 65 at 5am, and 68 at 6am ( or 67 at 5:45, 68 at 6am) and not have the Aux Heat kick in? |
|
|
|
|
geo fan
Registered Users
Basic Member
Posts:395
|
| 05/18/2009 9:10 PM |
|
You could do that
but it would be prefered to lock out aux all together , and if you want to go that route to keep 2nd stage off as long as possible great .
this would eliminate unrequired cycling and or an over lap and unrequired upstage as the load changes |
|
|
|
|
joe.ami
Registered Users
Veteran Member
Posts:1419
|
| 05/18/2009 10:00 PM |
|
Set back has been demonstrated here as beneficial in some geo situs. But there are provisos. Among them is good communication with the installer.
You have a programmable thermostat because they selected the IAQ. It comes with that option. Using it is not mandatory.
Our problem here is trying not to interfere with the folks that installed it. While we might have suggestions, we won't be there when it doesn't perform.
J |
|
Just a Mechanic;
Geothermal; Savings Underfoot |
|
|
ajsmama
Registered Users
New Member
Posts:28
|
| 05/18/2009 10:01 PM |
|
Yeah, I was just thinking that if we had a lockout we wouldn't have to worry about the 2-degree "jump" in demand and Aux heat coming on (as long as it was above the lockout temp outside). But then maybe IAQ helps too, even if it is below the lockout temp? I don't know why installer didn't set it/recommend lockout. He just told us not to set any period more than 2 degrees different from previous period, and recommended leaving it set constant. I didn't read about the lockout and check my settings until last month.
DH says we can just leave the breaker turned off all year LOL. |
|
|
|
|
engineer
Registered Users
Veteran Member
Posts:1159
|
| 05/19/2009 8:04 AM |
|
| Turn the aux back on when you leave on a vacation in winter - cheap insurance against a freezeup |
|
Without data, you only have an opinion. |
|
|
ajsmama
Registered Users
New Member
Posts:28
|
| 05/19/2009 8:21 AM |
|
That was a joke about keeping breaker off all year. We don't take a vacation every year (only had 1 in past 3 years), but if it's in winter we definitely will have the breaker on but turn stat down like we did Nov/Dec 08. At least we don't have to worry about running out of oil like we did one year (we were scheduled for delivery while we were on vacation but they didn't come, and when we got back the house was COLD! Thank goodness no burst pipes!).
Anyway, I don't want to destroy my relationship with installer, but since he apparently can't remember how he wired the strips (or if he changed default wiring), and isn't worried enough about it to come out and make adjustments for us, just telling me to schedule maintenance, he definitely goofed and set stat for 1 stage after selling me on advantages of variable 2-stage, I'd just like to know how to optimally configure this so when tech is here I can verify that he's doing it "right" this time. We've already gone through 2 heating seasons apparently with Aux Heat kicking in after 1 stage of geo, probably running when it's above freezing outside even though during design I was told it wouldn't kick in until it was about 0 degrees. So I really want to tweek the system as much as it can be before the next heating season, see how efficient we can make it. Yes, in retrospect maybe we should have gone single zone but the builder was wiring for 2 stat locations (upstairs and down) and I was coming from oil heat/setback mentality so that's what we had put in. At least 2nd zone might make it easier to finish (part of?) the attic later since zone 2 ductwork is run through attic kneewalls.
Then we'll start working on the other electricity usage - thinking about getting EnergyStar washer to use less hot water (replace 3 yr old Kenmore), putting up clothesline this summer as soon as we have grass instead of mud puddle out the back door (don't know if I'd freeze dry my clothes like neighbor does LOL), putting TV on power strip now that we're tuning through converter box and not losing our channel setups, etc.
Thanks everyone for suggestions on stat setup and scheduling. |
|
|
|
|
joe.ami
Registered Users
Veteran Member
Posts:1419
|
| 05/19/2009 10:06 AM |
|
We spoke with kip about his system in other threads if I'm not mistaken.
Again, to set thermostat we need to know the limitations of the zone controller/how they set it up. I don't know if you can answer that.
Your usage again does not seem out of the ordinary.
Yes there is a way to convert HDDs to btu's and kilowatt hours, perhaps someone will take the time to do that for you. Design would have been on a 20 year weather average though so results vary. These are questions we answer for our customers before the sale of the equipment and it requires more than a little data entry.
The 1 stage programming to the thermostat doesn't mean you'll kick aux. on quicker, just 2nd stage. Annual operating difference often <$100. Not a huge impact, but worth exploring. If you don't have a multistage zone control though it could take some clever wiring.
J |
|
Just a Mechanic;
Geothermal; Savings Underfoot |
|
|
ajsmama
Registered Users
New Member
Posts:28
|
| 05/28/2009 8:05 PM |
|
Please refer to my first post above for stat settings. My HVAC installer is sending tech out for annual cleaning/maintenance next week. After looking at our stat settings, can anybody recommend anything needing review/tweaking
Just to clarify if you don't read the whole thread, our heating usage (assuming lighting etc. stays constant all year) is app. 30-35 kWh/day, with baseline usage of about 35-40 kWh/day during non-heating season. May not get it much lower with temp set at 68, but I still think there are some settings that could be changed to make the system run better.
Thanks |
|
|
|
|
joe.ami
Registered Users
Veteran Member
Posts:1419
|
| 05/29/2009 8:17 AM |
|
Posted By joe.ami on 05/19/2009 10:06 AM
Again, to set thermostat we need to know the limitations of the zone controller/how they set it up. I don't know if you can answer that.
If you don't have a multistage zone control though it could take some clever wiring.
J
|
|
Just a Mechanic;
Geothermal; Savings Underfoot |
|
|
ajsmama
Registered Users
New Member
Posts:28
|
| 06/03/2009 12:20 PM |
|
Perhaps someone can help with this specific problem (Honeywell didn't have an answer). Installer was out here to service my Climatemaster Tranquility 27, changed some settings on stat, checked wiring on HP (electrician wired it strangely, so have 10 kW 1st stage - but split into 5kW and 5kW - on a 50A breaker and 5 kW 2nd stage wired to 30A breaker we've been leaving on all year b/c it was labeled "Air handler"). But whenever he went back into Setup, he found that 0350 and 0360 (compressor and Aux Heat lockout temps) have reverted back to "0" (not set). Not a problem with 0350 since we don't want to lock out compressor, but we'd really like to set the Aux Heat lockout to about 20 degrees F. Honeywell suggested setting 0350 temp first (and it didn't work), and then trying to change "Backup heat" (I forget number) to fossil fuel, but installer didn't want to do that. I don't know if changing it to Fossil Fuel, then setting the lockout temp, exiting Setup, then going back in and changing it to Electric would work?
I also suggested taking the stat off the wall in the 2 zone and reprogramming it as the main controller to see if that particular stat would keep the settings, but he said it wouldn't make a difference. I was wondering if we had a defective stat?
Since we discovered how it was wired, and that 5kW was potentially on when we thought we were running GSHP only, and we could be pulling 60A when we have both breakers on, we have shut off both breakers for the Aux Heat, will turn on the 30A breaker for what should be the last stage in the fall (Oct?), turn that off and turn the 50A breaker on once the 5kW can't keep up (typically Nov, but we'll run only the 10k and not the 15k we have potentially been running), and hopefully go all winter with only that 10kW running, but turn the 30 A breaker so we get all 15kW running if we need to in Feb.
But if we find that turning the breakers on and off throughout the heating season isn't working out, the only other thing he could think of was to disable the 2nd zone and put in the extra IAQ controller board that isn't on our system now? I really don't want to go to the added expense just to get the lockout though. TIA |
|
|
|
|
joe.ami
Registered Users
Veteran Member
Posts:1419
|
| 06/04/2009 7:47 AM |
|
Posted By joe.ami on 05/29/2009 8:17 AM
Posted By joe.ami on 05/19/2009 10:06 AM
Again, to set thermostat we need to know the limitations of the zone controller/how they set it up. I don't know if you can answer that.
If you don't have a multistage zone control though it could take some clever wiring.
J
4th try. The thermostat is limited to the capabilities of the zone controller. You don't have to answer this question, but without the answer, I can't help you.
j
|
|
Just a Mechanic;
Geothermal; Savings Underfoot |
|
|
ajsmama
Registered Users
New Member
Posts:28
|
| 06/04/2009 1:02 PM |
|
I'm sorry, we're both getting frustrated. I didn't know what you meant by "limitations of the zone controller" so I didn't ask him to check that. It does seem to have something to do with the zone controller, though, since when I took the upstairs stat off the wall this AM and set 0110 on the master stat to 0 (unzoned), then set 0350 and 0360 it retained them. But can't get them to stay with 2 stats in the system.
The zone controller is a W8835A. If there are DIP settings or jumpers you want me to describe to you, let me know and I'll take a look - I do appreciate your help. Installer didn't do anything at the zone controller that I know of (even though I know he had the cover off at one point), and when we called Honeywell they didn't mention anything to him (I don't think - not on speaker) about the zone controller, just suggested a couple of different settings (fossil fuel? instead of HP) on stat. Thanks. |
|
|
|
|
joe.ami
Registered Users
Veteran Member
Posts:1419
|
| 06/04/2009 10:55 PM |
|
No apologies required.
Don't recognize the number alone, what brand is it?
J |
|
Just a Mechanic;
Geothermal; Savings Underfoot |
|
|
ajsmama
Registered Users
New Member
Posts:28
|
| 06/05/2009 6:10 AM |
|
| Sorry - that's a Honeywell as well. |
|
|
|
|
joe.ami
Registered Users
Veteran Member
Posts:1419
|
| 06/05/2009 7:19 AM |
|
Why don't we have you Google: "honeywell hvac" and pull up the Honeywell (for your) home site. This site has an "ask the expert column" where you can direct your questions to guys/gals with the manuals in front of them.
Thermostats and zone controls have changed dramatically over the last few years and there is no common thread in programming one brand to the next. It makes it hard to remotely program something (kind of need to have it in front of ya with the manual in hand). I'd hoped you had a familiar (to me) zone controller, but no such luck.
I'm not familiar with that particular zone system, but noticed on the Honeywell site that they talked about controls that fit well with the IAQ stats. Hope they can help.
j |
|
Just a Mechanic;
Geothermal; Savings Underfoot |
|
|
ajsmama
Registered Users
New Member
Posts:28
|
| 06/05/2009 10:07 AM |
|
| Thanks - I did pull up the manual for the zone controller, but missed the "ask the expert" button. |
|
|
|
|
Bergy
Registered Users
Basic Member
Posts:116
|
| 06/05/2009 11:11 AM |
|
ajsmama,
unfortunately I don't think you will have much luck with Honeywell. Every time I've called about setting up their zoning products I've been given a separate number to use. I'm not sure if the same will hold true for a homeowner...
Bergy
|
|
|
|
|
ajsmama
Registered Users
New Member
Posts:28
|
| 06/10/2009 9:59 AM |
|
I emailed Honeywell, got this reply back ;
"The thermostats cannot be set to do balance point lockout when used with a W8835A Envirazone panel. Installer set-up options 0350 and 0360 cannot be set to a number other than 0. "
Does this make sense? I know we don't need to set 0350 to anything, but why wouldn't you be able to set Aux Heat lockout just b/c it's zoned? |
|
|
|
|
geo fan
Registered Users
Basic Member
Posts:395
|
| 06/10/2009 5:18 PM |
|
your board uses a digital signal from each thermostat
as apposed to the analog 24v on off signal that most do
This offers some benefits and some restrictions . of which I wont go into but you know of one
Your aux if controlled by the board which it most likely is , its controlled by time delay alone which should be adjustable
You still can lock out but you would have to get an additional out door temp sensor and use it to interrupt the signal after the board
ie. break w on the wire between the equipment and the board . not likely a home owner job . |
|
|
|
|