New geo in New York
Last Post 14 Jul 2009 07:41 AM by joe.ami. 8 Replies.
Printer Friendly
Sort:
PrevPrev NextNext
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Author Messages
tnlgeoUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:6

--
05 Jul 2009 09:51 PM
Building a new house and would like any feedback on our geo system we are installing.

Our house will be 2315 sq. ft. two story with a full basement (to be finished later). We are going to use spray foam insulation to cover the entire living envelope.
The system was designed using Elite RHVAC and Gaia GLD software.
Here are the results, total conditioned space with basement is 3,120 sq. ft. with a heat load of 47,300 BTU/hour.

Going to use a horizontal closed loop with three slinky loops of 1200 feet each of 1 inch HDPE pipe. A water and propylene glycol mixture withe freeze protection to 20 degrees will
be used.

Heat pump is a 4-ton ClimateMaster Tranquility 049 water-to-air, with added 10kW electric coil heater to provide supplemental heat as needed.
Went with a Three zone setup to run the system.

Because of spray foam we are adding a Fantech heat recovery ventilator to provide needed fresh air to our home.

Also added an Aprilaire whole-house humidifier to help with dry winter heating.

Should also add the family room will have a propane direct vent fireplace ,(BTU unknown) still have to select unit to install.
joe.amiUser is Offline
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Send Private Message
Posts:4377
Avatar

--
05 Jul 2009 10:24 PM
Posted By tnlgeo on 07/05/2009 9:51 PM

 heat load of 47,300 BTU/hour.


Heat pump is a 4-ton ClimateMaster Tranquility 049 water-to-air, with added 10kW electric coil heater to provide supplemental heat as needed.
Went with a Three zone setup to run the system.


Also added an Aprilaire whole-house humidifier to help with dry winter heating.


If you are not particularly North of Lansing MI, I would say the 4 ton is oversized. What % of the load did your contractor suggest it would handle?
Not a fan of zoning in general, geo in particular and oversized equipment especially (if you are oversized as you appear to be).
I use 3/4" slinkies, and depending on soil, the same number of feet as your loops (though divided into 4 slinkies).
Not a fan of any but steam humidifiers (i.e. Honeywell True Steam or such) if one is required at all. Lower temps of geo make bypass humidifiers less effective. Lower air temps of geo also require less supplemental humidity and in some cases, none.
Now my questions for you....
How many of your installers references did you check?
How long have they been in geo business?
What are their licenses/certifications?
Installing contractors have more to do with customer satisfaction than type of loop field, heat pump, humidifier etc.
Good Luck,
Joe
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort!
TechGromitUser is Offline
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Send Private Message
Posts:634

--
06 Jul 2009 10:50 AM
The heat load sounds a little high to me, given the house is so well insulated you have to bring air from the outside for proper ventilation. My heat load is somewhere around 40k for a simular sized house, but than again I am farther south than you (NJ) but it's not so super insulated that I have to vent the house.  
geo fanUser is Offline
Basic Member
Basic Member
Send Private Message
Posts:408

--
06 Jul 2009 02:47 PM
Load calc ( depends on where in NY ) Buffalo , to NYC is a long way .
I would say the equipment size is big , but not completely out of wack IF the company offered you different options with % of aux and different payback periods , and this is the one you picked , but with 3 zones its very unlikely you will ever need that aux coil .
Also a bypass humidifier if fine but dont expect the world from it , with heat pumps they do little more then take the edge off , but there cheap and effecient .
question . did the heat load calc include the hrv ? are they being done by the same company ? There have been problems which is why I asked.
tnlgeoUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:6

--
12 Jul 2009 02:19 PM
Thank you for all the input and concerns.
Wanted to update you, we changed our loop field design after seeing the foundation being dug. We eliminated the slinkies for a straight out and back loop system, 4 runs of 700 ft. 3/4 inch HDPE pipe (2400 total) tied into a
1 1/2 inch manifold, buried 7 ft. below grade.
Now to answer some of your questions,
We are located about 60 miles north of Albany, have a river across the road from us and a big open lot with little cover.
The company we went with is new to geothermal heating ,have to start somehow. The company has been in geology and environmental siences for years. They specilize in geology, hydrogeology, site assesments, drilling and
tnlgeoUser is Offline
New Member
New Member
Send Private Message
Posts:6

--
12 Jul 2009 02:53 PM
sorry about that , my daughter hit the send button when I left the room.
In short there are many licensed/certified engineers and geologist working an staff. I AM a little nervous they are new to Geo, but I'm hoping they are being overly cautious and trying to get it perfect the first time.
I'm not sure if the hrv was included in the load calc. They work with a sub to install the hrv, humidifier and duct work all sized for maximum results. The aux. coil seemed like a cheap add on just in case we need it.
When the system is up and running they will closely monitor performance, we would like to isolate the heat pump from the rest of the house to see exactly the electric usage for a year or two.
I'll keep updating as we move forward.
engineerUser is Offline
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Send Private Message
Posts:2749

--
12 Jul 2009 06:52 PM
None of the areas of expertise you list necessarily translate to HVAC
Curt Kinder <br><br>

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
joe.amiUser is Offline
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Send Private Message
Posts:4377
Avatar

--
13 Jul 2009 07:30 PM
Posted By tnlgeo on 07/12/2009 2:19 PM
Thank you for all the input and concerns.
Wanted to update you, we changed our loop field design after seeing the foundation being dug. We eliminated the slinkies for a straight out and back loop system, 4 runs of 700 ft. 3/4 inch HDPE pipe (2400 total) tied into a
1 1/2 inch manifold, buried 7 ft. below grade.
Now to answer some of your questions,
We are located about 60 miles north of Albany, have a river across the road from us and a big open lot with little cover.
The company we went with is new to geothermal heating ,have to start somehow. The company has been in geology and environmental siences for years. They specilize in geology, hydrogeology, site assesments, drilling and


Besides input and concerns, we asked questions to help answer your questions.
There is nothing that we do that somebody else couldn't, but we are experienced and have repeated (to distraction) that your contractor is the most important component of your geo system.
Good Luck,
Joe
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort!
joe.amiUser is Offline
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Send Private Message
Posts:4377
Avatar

--
14 Jul 2009 07:41 AM
Posted By joe.ami on 07/05/2009 10:24 PM

Not a fan of any but steam humidifiers (i.e. Honeywell True Steam or such) if one is required at all. Lower temps of geo make bypass humidifiers less effective. Lower air temps of geo also require less supplemental humidity 
Joe


Engineer privately (and correctly) asked me how air temp could affect gross humidity in a home.
The answer of course is that it does not. In a classic example of the fingers working more quickly than the brain, I over simplified the situation.
Loss from air exhausted during combustion of course carries humidity out with it etc.
While I oversimplified; the end result is the same in that geo units require far less supplemental humidity.
j
Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort!
You are not authorized to post a reply.

Active Forums 4.1
Membership Membership: Latest New User Latest: croccohvacusa New Today New Today: 0 New Yesterday New Yesterday: 0 User Count Overall: 35027
People Online People Online: Visitors Visitors: 177 Members Members: 0 Total Total: 177
Copyright 2011 by BuildCentral, Inc.   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement