Porsche998
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| 07/20/2009 1:35 PM |
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I installed a Climatemaster Tranquility 27 (038) about 3 years ago. The system went through startup and everything has been functioning well until the past couple of months.
Now the system will run for about 4 minutes and then the compressor trips off with the water still running. The cycle will continue with the compressor restarting. HOWEVER, none of the alarm codes come up on the CXM board. I have treid in the heating and cooling modes and both modes - the compressor trips after about a 4 minute run. I was told by the distributor that it must be a problem with the TACO valve contacts. As suggester, I jumped the contacts with the same result - I even bought and installed a new TACO valve with the wame results.
I installed the system with the understanding that it would provide a troubleshooting info on any fault - but no such luck. ANY thoughts would be welcome before I start measuring pressures and temps.
Thanks |
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Bergy
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| 07/20/2009 2:52 PM |
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I assume this is an open loop. If this is the case, have you had your coax heat exchanger backflushed at all? If it is shutting down in both heating and cooling you are probably looking at a water side issue.
Bergy
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Porsche998
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| 07/20/2009 3:29 PM |
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| Yes - it is an open loop. You may be right - but When the unit is operating, I have opened the bleed full and get about 5 gpm from the flow meter. Since the unit requires at a minimum 2 gpm/ton or about 6 gpm total, I would think that this indicates enough water flow should be going through? Also I don't understand why one of the alarms is not showingup. Thanks for your thoughts. |
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Bergy
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| 07/20/2009 3:45 PM |
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Hard water deposits inside the HX acts as an insulator, reducing the amount of heat transfer from the water to the refrigerant.
As far as the alarm... I'm stumped on that one.
Bergy
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dbelisle
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| 07/20/2009 5:01 PM |
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Try back flushing your coil with Muriatic acid .. Bacterial iron will cause the same problem.......
I just did a four ton unit that was locking out......Problem gone.....
Dave in NH |
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Masoud
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| 07/20/2009 10:11 PM |
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A CXM safety feature, "Extended Compressor Operation Monitoring", does what Porsche998 described above, except after 4 continuous hours of compressor run time. It turns the compressor relay off for a short time (I think five minutes) and checks for normal conditions before turning the compressor relay back on, if there is still a call.
Regards,
Masoud |
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joe.ami
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| 07/21/2009 7:20 AM |
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Make sure the air filter is clean.
J |
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Just a Mechanic;
Geothermal; Savings Underfoot |
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Geothermalman
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| 07/21/2009 7:42 AM |
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| Is this a package or split system. If a split what brand of air handler do you have? |
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Porsche998
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| 07/21/2009 8:50 AM |
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It is a split system. I am still confused by a lack of alarms but tend to agree that it is a waterside problem. The air filter was just changed. The system operated fine over the winter (the house is located in NH). Suddenly on a cold sping day, I found the system was going to emergency heat and the geothermal compressor was tripping off. I thought that I would come back when I had time to trouble shoot. Subsequently, I spent time trying to see what alarms were triggered (none that I could find) etc.
Since the system was operating fine during the winter (and has for 3 years), I don't think that iron bacteria could have bulit up overnight to cause a unit trip. I suspect that with the well temps low and a very cold sping night, my bleed could have run the well down and stirred up sand which then partially plugged the coil. Sounds reasonable?
My thought is to backflush with a garden hose from the well to the outlet and a garden house on the outlet to run outside (caught in a pail to inspect) and see what happens |
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Geothermalman
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| 07/21/2009 8:52 AM |
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| What brand is your air handler?? |
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Porsche998
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| 07/21/2009 8:54 AM |
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| My mistake - it is not a split system - it is a Climatemaster package. Sorry |
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dbelisle
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| 07/21/2009 11:09 AM |
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build up in a coil doesn't happen overnight.....
The four ton unit I was talking about ran flawlessly for three years , then it started locking out on every cycle.......
I flushed the coil just a few weeks ago and it runs like a top again......
For the first 20 seconds the fluid was a dark brown and had small chunks.....
It went just a year from the last time I flushed the coil............
Muriatic Acid is dangerous stuff and not a DIY project , You might want to find a plumber ..........
Dave in NH |
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joe.ami
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| 07/21/2009 7:45 PM |
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If filter is clean i agree with either poor water flow or plugged coax.
j |
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Just a Mechanic;
Geothermal; Savings Underfoot |
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engineer
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| 07/23/2009 8:04 AM |
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If possible, check to see that compressor is going out on high amps - measure against nameplate RLA / FLA. In cooling mode that would be consistent with scaled coax or low flow.
Low flow alone would be accompanied by high leaving water temp - 110-120 or thereabouts. Very heavy scaling could cause low flow, exacerbating the heat transfer problem.
In heating mode low flow would cause freeze protection trip out, and period before cut-out would be accompanied by lower than normal leaving air temp (unless strips come on) and lower than normal compressor amps. |
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Without data, you only have an opinion. |
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Porsche998
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| 07/27/2009 12:40 PM |
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| Thanks for all your input. I checked the coax this weekend. there is no evidence of iron bacteria. I didn't have a chance to check the current draw. Talked to the distributor. They think that the compressor capacitor is gone and tripping. Any thoughts? |
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Bergy
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| 07/27/2009 12:48 PM |
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How did you check the coax? Testing a capacitor is straight forward... Micro fared readings normally need to be +or- 5% of rating plate.
Bergy
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joe.ami
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| 07/28/2009 8:49 AM |
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Posted By Porsche998 on 07/27/2009 12:40 PM
Thanks for all your input. I checked the coax this weekend. there is no evidence of iron bacteria. I didn't have a chance to check the current draw. Talked to the distributor. They think that the compressor capacitor is gone and tripping. Any thoughts?
If capacitor is causing shut down it would not respond to the usual lock-out remedies.
If your coax is not plugged, I'd look at the drain/GPM next and if all else failed the refrigerant charge.
Most common problems again are filter, plugged drain, fouled heat exchanger...triple check those first.
j |
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Just a Mechanic;
Geothermal; Savings Underfoot |
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Porsche998
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| 09/09/2009 10:57 AM |
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| Finally found the problem - Replaced the CXM board and everything was OK. Had flushed the coax, replaced air cleaner, replaced the thermostat, checked the drain, and then found that if I tapped on the compressor relay on the CXM board, I could cycle the complress on and off. Replaced the board and everything is working fine. Thanks |
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engineer
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| 09/09/2009 9:26 PM |
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Sorry we weren't of more help sooner - a weakness of internet aid.
My experience (more outside this field than in it) is that boards are first to be suspected but least often the cause of failures, absent an obvious event such as a power spike or lightning strike. If a board does go bad, it makes sense that the bum component would be a relay, since it has moving parts |
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Without data, you only have an opinion. |
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joe.ami
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| 09/09/2009 10:41 PM |
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P998,
really do appreciate your sharing the solution. We all benefit from collective experience. Of course clean coax and filter are not without benefit :)
joe |
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Just a Mechanic;
Geothermal; Savings Underfoot |
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