Premier WF has died after 19 years.  Compressor had been replaced twice.
Always finicky, this unit was not dependable.
Never had a season without problems.

Our home is 2800 sq feet including the basement.

The system installed is a horizontal closed loop over an acre.

Climate here is cold in winter down to -25 C  and hot and humid in summer up to 35 C.

Lots of windows but with many south facing,  as well as sliding doors and two air tight fireplaces.

Our technician has suggested a WF replacement, not WF but a brand they produce at a cost of $15k

Seems very high given the loop system is in place.

Advice for the size of the unit we need (3 or 4 ton? ) and products that would work well in this climate?

Looking for reliability.

What is the size of your current unit?

It's a 5 ton model, two speed, heating,cooling,hot water
one thermostat, 3 stages
2500 feet of closed horizontal loop

15K does sound high for a straight up replacement. I assume you're in the great white north so 2500' of pipe seems shy for a five ton system in a climate that cold. Here in eastern Iowa we use 700' of pipe per ton in a horizontal loop.

Bergy

Hey Bergy,

Do you do slinkies or two pipe or four pipe trench?

my location is south western Quebec, outside of Ottawa - average January 13F - average July around 80F with high humidity

$15k seems high for straight replacement. Canadian dollars? I used to tease my northern friends about their "cruddy little metric dollars", but now not so much.

Also would like to see a load calc to validate tonnage. It may be that the loopfield is a bit small for 5 tons, so a 3-4 ton unit might work better for that loop even if it doesn't meet all the load as well. This is pure, over-the-internet speculation, thoough - free and worth every penny.

Thanks so much. I'll ask the technician to show me a load calculation - even if I don't understand it I want to make sure he does.
I'll ask him about a 3-4 ton unit. And I'll question the high cost for sure. Will let you know what happens.

a 5 ton for a 1400 square foot house is way overkill. A 3 ton would do I am sure but like he said seeing the heat loss calcs is important, it may need a 4 ton if it gets extremely cold. If it compares any we are getting a unit installed and it costs around $20000 plus GST for a 4 ton unit including the ground loop (2400feet) and installation start to finish including some ductwork modifications and I would say alot of that fee goes to the loop, excavation, and indoor work, a straight swap should be much cheaper I would think

Dewayne,

We use a lot of slinkies for new construction and we prefer to use horizontal boring for retrofits. The big benefit, to us, is a cleaner install. We cut a 2'X2' hole in the slab close to where the unit will set, the operator bores under the house, up into our hole,grabs the pipes and pulls them outside. A little cement and all is right with the world!

Bergy

What is the diameter of the pipe in your ground loops?
j

Joe,

95% of our installs use 3/4" HDPE for the loops and 1 1/4" for the supply and return.

Bergy

interesting. isnt one of the selling points of geothermal to justify paying 2 to 3 times more than air source the long life and reduced maintaince costs?
here we have one that only lasted 19 years and had 2 compressor replacements along the way. how is that saving money?

Ahh the old Copeland 2 speed lots of starts and stops between stages. The good thing is they don't make them anymore, the new scroll does not stop between stages. As suggested I would do a heat load and review that loop.

It would depend on how much the original install was, and what the maintenance / Repair costs were.  It's entirely possible that even with all these problems, that the homeowner still came out ahead over the cost of heating with Gas. As for installing a ASHP, the homeowner stated that the winters go down to -25C (-13F), an ASHP isn't worth a damn once temperatures drop below freezing, backup heat only at the point.

Sorry Bergy, I meant what is the poster's ground loop diameter. We were quick to suggest he might be short looped but we did not ask soil time or pipe diameter.
I've noticed from posts here or elsewhere larger diameter pipe used at least in Ontario installs (ocassionally). Be good not to call loops too short if they are (for example) 1 1/4" in saturated sand/gravel.
j