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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:754
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| 05/19/2008 6:13 AM |
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Jelly;
your not saying that your not building with SIPs, AAC or otherwise because everbodyelse isn't? |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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Jelly
Registered Users
Posts:239
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| 05/19/2008 1:26 PM |
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Chris, no I'm absolutely not saying that! I will not use stick construction - that is for sure. I really couldn't imagine a worse method for Louisiana.
What I'm trying to say (or at least one of the things I'm trying to say) is most of the contemporary green methods are out of my reach for one reason or another, even though most of them are close to the price per square foot of traditional stick construction. Most other people in the same boat as myself need to turn to something that they can do themselves. And those other people, who maybe aren't as tuned into efficiency or environmental concerns, will reach for what is available and familiar to them. And that unfortunately is stick construction, because the technology is readily available, the industry is set up for it, and the prescriptive methods are ubiquitous. And frankly, many aren't even aware of any other option.
Even professionals, who should make it their business to be knowledgeable about green methods, are still building with 2x4's. I won't do it, but it is still being done by the majority. And it's a shame because it's not necessary. It's not like using a car - the most expensive method of getting around. Walking, cycling, or riding the bus are all cheaper, but less convenient. Construction doesn't have to be that way - the cheapest methods could and should be the greenest and the easiest.
Anyway, if anyone is still reading this far into my post, I still have an open mind, and I am open to suggestions for an affordable green building method that the homeowner can build on his own.
However, based on my own research, which of course could have some holes in it, I can't find anything more affordable than dry-stacked CMU with external foamboard. Most CMU is manufactured locally, has prescriptive methods available, is hurricane resistant if reinforced properly and grouted or surface-bonded, is relatively easy to clean up after a flood, is termite-proof, and if properly insulated can achieve a very tight envelope and energy-efficient space.
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tlynch
Registered Users
Posts:50
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| 05/19/2008 3:43 PM |
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What CMU systems are you considering? (do you have links to websites?)
How much per SF of wall are you estimating?
Here is my latest take for an inexpensive green building method:
Build a steel frame with 24' open steel trusses on 10' tall 4" H Beam posts, spaced 8' apart. Then use 8' x 4' OSB Non-structural, insulated panels to enclose the envelope.
I think that the steel frame might cost around $14k and could be bolted together.
The 8x4 panels are $140 each. http://www.thesipstore.com/index.php?p=product&id=38&parent=0
Roof - 54 Panels - $7,500
Thinner panels for floor:
Floor - 54 Panels - $6,000
The 8x10 panels are $180 each. http://www.thesipstore.com/index.php?p=product&id=32&parent=18
Walls - 48 = $9,000
So $22,500 For SIPS. (I think this is a high estimate)
Foundation, full poured foundation - $15k.
Roofing - waterproof membrane, root barrier, drainage layer, Soil, sedum - Cost??
Siding - ?? Cost?
I would use 8'x8' sliding glass door to fill in roughly 9 of the bays - $1200 each = $11k on Windows. And reduce SIP cost a bit.
Frame $14k
Sips $22,500
Foundateion $15k.
Windows $11k
Roof - $15k??
Siding - $15k??
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So 92k in material for a complete green envelope for 1728 square feet. $53 per square foot.
I am considering replacing the full north wall with a concrete berm wall. This will reduce the SIP cost by roughly 18 panels 12', So roughly $3,200. And lower the siding cost. But the extra concrete work will be probably over $10k.
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tlynch
Registered Users
Posts:50
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| 05/19/2008 3:46 PM |
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Good CMU Overview Link - A bit dated:
web.dcp.ufl.edu/stroh/CMU-Systems.pdf |
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Jelly
Registered Users
Posts:239
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| 05/19/2008 4:44 PM |
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Posted By tlynch on 05/19/2008 3:43 PM
What CMU systems are you considering? (do you have links to websites?)
How much per SF of wall are you estimating?
The most affordable CMU is the 2 cell grey block that they make at your nearest concrete plant. For 16 square feet of external wall there are 18 blocks (which are 8 inches high and 16 inches long). The price could be anywhere from .80 cents per block to $1.35 or more, depending on supplier and how much you buy, etc. Add to that the cost of 4 x 8 sheets of EPS, rebar, and grout or surface bonding cement to get an approximate external wall structure price.
The interlocking systems would be quicker to put up and easier to keep level, but they would cost more (for shipping and built-in patent costs). Some of those sites are here:
http://www.azarblock.com/
http://www.haenerblock.com/
http://www.vobb.com/
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:754
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| 05/19/2008 8:22 PM |
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Posted By Jelly on 05/19/2008 1:26 PM
Chris, no I'm absolutely not saying that! I will not use stick construction - that is for sure. I really couldn't imagine a worse method for Louisiana.
Good, I thought we were loosing you. If you used dry-stacked what roof system would you use?
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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Jelly
Registered Users
Posts:239
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| 05/20/2008 2:06 AM |
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I would like to use steel SIPS for the roof (that is if I can get my hands on some as a DIYer!) or if I can save enough in other areas to subcontract it out.
But what might be more in my price range would be steel trusses with spray foam - the downside of that is the plywood sheathing. Is there an affordable alternative to plywood sheathing to use over the steel trusses? I don't know if Magnesium Oxide Board is structural in that application, and it's also supposed to be expensive. I've heard of people putting metal roofing straight on to the steel trusses without the sheathing and then using spray foam on the underside, but that doesn't seem like a good idea in a high-wind zone.
The roof structure is very simple - just a gable on two parts of the house and a lean-to on another part. There are no valleys or hips anywhere.
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:754
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| 05/20/2008 7:33 AM |
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Steel SIPs are the less expensive route than , steel truss/plywood/insulation
we just shipped a DIY steel SIP package thru our Sip Depot affiliate to Georgia |
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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Jelly
Registered Users
Posts:239
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| 05/20/2008 7:45 AM |
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Posted By cmkavala on 05/20/2008 7:33 AM
Steel SIPs are the less expensive route than , steel truss/plywood/insulation
we just shipped a DIY steel SIP package thru our Sip Depot affiliate to Georgia Well if you're talking about material costs then that is good news. But something tells me you're considering labor costs when you say a steel SIP roof is cheaper. From what I've gathered from the forums it seems like DIYers are discouraged from doing their own steel SIPS?
I'm sending you an email, Chris.
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tlynch
Registered Users
Posts:50
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| 05/20/2008 11:16 AM |
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Chris, Jelly,
If you guys could provide your estimates here it would be of great help to others who are considering these construction methods.
Todd |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:754
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| 05/20/2008 2:11 PM |
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Posted By Jelly on 05/19/2008 1:26 PM
I can't find anything more affordable than dry-stacked CMU with external foamboard. Most CMU is manufactured locally, has prescriptive methods available, is hurricane resistant if reinforced properly and grouted or surface-bonded, is relatively easy to clean up after a flood, is termite-proof, and if properly insulated can achieve a very tight envelope and energy-efficient space.
Jelly;
I think that when you conclude your full research on the drystack sytem, including- grouting, re-bar, foam, etc. you will find that SIPs are the least expensive, most user friendly sytem out there.
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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Jelly
Registered Users
Posts:239
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| 05/20/2008 5:28 PM |
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Posted By tlynch on 05/20/2008 11:16 AM
Chris, Jelly,
If you guys could provide your estimates here it would be of great help to others who are considering these construction methods.
Todd,
Here are some very rough numbers for just the wall material for three methods. For 7200 square feet of external wall (length of wall times height, not subtracting window or door openings):
CMU 8" - the only component I don't have a good number for here is the rebar:
8100 individual CMU blocks at 80 cents a piece is $6480
225 4 x 8 sheets of EPS at 10 dollars a piece is $2250
80 cubic yards of concrete (probably more than enough grout) at 100 dollars a yard is $8000
total for walls (minus rebar) is $16730
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ICF 6" - not including the cost of bracing
720 Straight Blocks at $11023.20
540 Corner Blocks at $9698.40
Total for Straight and Corner Blocks = $20721.60
120.96 Cubic Yards of Concrete at 100 dollars a yard is $12000
total for walls is $32721
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Steel SIPS 6" - can't guarantee the price on panels, but...
3.8 square feet of panel costs $19.68,
total for walls (not including base channels) is $37288
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:754
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| 05/20/2008 5:40 PM |
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Posted By tlynch on 05/20/2008 11:16 AM
Chris, Jelly,
If you guys could provide your estimates here it would be of great help to others who are considering these construction methods.
Todd Todd;
any estimate I do for a customer is privleged , it would be the customers option to post if they so desired
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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robinnc
Registered Users
Posts:111
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| 05/29/2008 7:54 PM |
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Jelly,
Have you looked at this type of ICF?
http://www.rastra.com/
Also using this instead of rebar?
http://helixfiber.com/
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Jimmy
Registered Users
Posts:4
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| 07/04/2008 11:51 AM |
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I feel it is either steel frame or concrete block also
What is your sq ft and budget ??
I have a 20x40' steel frame up and looking to enclose it |
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cmkavala
Registered Users
Posts:754
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| 07/05/2008 8:27 AM |
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Posted By JBWebster on 07/05/2008 1:12 AM
We can do plans in almost all 50 states
Jeremiah
JBW;
can you please post your license # for Florida and Georgia as it is not on your web site
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Chris Kavala
chris@southernsips.com
1-877-321-SIPS |
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