djschrall
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| 02/04/2008 3:30 AM |
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| A friend recently told me about a new company that just started to produce PV panels and sell them at that cost. I have not researched at all and have no other info right now, but this seems to be a huge breakthrough.
Factory is in East Germany. Unsure of the actual parent company origin. Will post more if/when I find out more, but if true, seems like a significant breakthrough.
Having said all that, can anyone state the current cost per watt available now?
Thanks,
Dave |
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Jhuanger629
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| 02/04/2008 1:38 PM |
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wow, at $1/watt, please do keep me posted. I'm extremely interested in learning more.
Almost similar to Google/Nanosolar's $.99/watt thin film stuff that will be coming out or has come out.
To give you an idea, overseas Chinese manufacturers are quoting wholesale at roughly $3.50-$3.90/watt during opening negotiations. Obviously the more you buy and the larger the panel size influences pricing (cheaper). |
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Quantum
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| 02/04/2008 1:56 PM |
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This is going to be thin-film CIGSSe manufactured by Aleo, a technology licensed from Johanna of SA. Aleo isn't talking about it yet, but CIGSSe has no silicon (which is in short supply), it works even on cloudy days, and has the potential to exceed the efficiencies of monocrystalline at a fraction of the cost! Very promising.
Finally, CIGSSe is entering production! ... although it will be a couple years before we can actually buy it. PowerGuard was going to sell them, but was bought by SunPower. I wanted to set up U.S. production here in WA, but couldn't raise the $7 million it would take.
Daystar and NanoSolar are going to make CIGS, a slightly inferior technology not to be confused with CIGSSe. And I don't trust anything Red Chinese.
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Jhuanger629
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| 02/04/2008 2:00 PM |
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| Thanks for that Quantum, that's amazing news! |
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Quantum
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| 02/04/2008 2:28 PM |
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NP.
Hm, it seems Johanna has now opened a facility in Germany to manufacture panels themselves, although they had said for some time they will not be manufacturers. And Aleo will actually be distributing (maybe packaging the elements into panels and systems). Prof. Vivan Alberts of the Department of Physics at the Univ. of Johannesburg is directly associated with the commercialization of his new technology with Johanna Solar, although the projected cost is $1.66/W. Here's more info.
Daystar has reached 20% efficiency and plans on reducing its installed price to the range of $1.00/W when its Gen III production is tuned up in 2009, but this cost is for large multi-MW installations, not for household installations. |
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ReadyToRetire
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| 02/04/2008 3:28 PM |
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Quantum,
Any information on the service life yet?
Very respectfully,
Larry
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Quantum
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| 02/04/2008 3:47 PM |
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Yes, projected to be almost as long as mono (~15 years), with very little of the efficiency decline that amorphous silicon (Unisolar) shows. Amorphous loses ~20% in the first two years, of its already low efficiency.
It seems CIGSSe is a wonderful technology. But a major impediment is translating small-scale production to large scale, without sacrificing quality. That's what they've been working on with the Germans, and once settled on, those methods will be propagated worldwide, theoretically... if Big Oil doesn't buy it out. |
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Jelly
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| 02/05/2008 1:36 AM |
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Posted By Quantum on 02/04/2008 3:47 PM... if Big Oil doesn't buy it out. Let's not give them any ideas, Quantum! ;) Wait, I think I hear a black helicopter...
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djschrall
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| 02/05/2008 10:04 AM |
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jhuanger629,
You are right it is Nanosolar. They are not ready to produce in volume, so the price is still a POSSIBILITY, not yet a reality. Here is the article about it:
http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/18/nanosolar-is-gunning-for-coal/
Dave |
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djschrall
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| 02/05/2008 10:25 AM |
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BTW, I did some research and found the current cost of PV panels to be in the $5-6 range. This is for currently available technology that is on the market now, not some "maybe, kinda, someday if all goes well" product that is yet to become viable.
Dave |
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Jhuanger629
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| 02/05/2008 12:35 PM |
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Thanks DJ, techcrunch.com is a great blog! My company was featured in Venturebeat recently as well. You wouldn't believe the amount of press/hits we got from those placements.
With regards to Uni-Solar, I've heard (either rumor or fact) that they are focusing all of their manufacturing/production for sales in Europe and will essentially be limiting product distribution in the US. They've already cut their popular 62 watt panels from their product family.
Anyone have any insight? |
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Quantum
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| 02/05/2008 1:03 PM |
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Jhuanger, Dr. Ovshinsky is very circumspect about his plans, after the debacle of licensing his NiMH technology to GM, which turned around and licensed it to an oil company, subsequently burying it.
I haven't heard what you say, but it doesn't make sense because in the first place shipping costs, and in the second Europe is ten years ahead of the US, since the Cheney Administration no longer invests in research. Guns, not Butter. |
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Jhuanger629
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| 02/05/2008 1:07 PM |
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I hope that is the case. Our dealers have informed us that certain uni-solar products will no longer be available.
I definitely agree that Europe is light years ahead of us lol |
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TechGromit
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| 03/06/2008 9:08 AM |
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Posted By Quantum on 02/04/2008 1:56 PM
Finally, CIGSSe is entering production! ... although it will be a couple years before we can actually buy it. PowerGuard was going to sell them, but was bought by SunPower. I wanted to set up U.S. production here in WA, but couldn't raise the $7 million it would take.
That's what pisses me off about the energy industry. A utility would have no trouble raising 7 billion dollars to build a new nuclear power plant, but something like solar and you can't get one red cent out of investors for it.
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woulfcc
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| 03/16/2008 6:19 PM |
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The nuclear plant makes 1 mil. a day so yes it all about money.(for up to 50 years)
What do you expect them to put money into something that will lower their market?
Green or green $ the energy gods want green but for green and we are addicted to energy.
Good luck on this one I will watch this one but I don't have the green to compete with the big boys. |
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Changing How the World BUILDS!
Green , Done , Easy
Woulf c.c. of Wisconsin |
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Gsfrey
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| 04/29/2008 5:08 PM |
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Finally heard back from Johanna, www.johanna-solar.com, who will be handling the manufacturing of the panels in Germany. They will be distributing through a company named Aleo Solar www.aleo-solar.com, and expect the panels to be available in late '08 early '09. From the e-mail I received it would appear they are receiving a lot of calls and e-mails from folks looking to assume US and N. America distribution.
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Greg Freyermuth
915-256-7563, Phone
GregFreyermuth@elp.rr.com, E-Mail |
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bhinegardn
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| 06/21/2008 5:30 PM |
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| Another company to watch is Konarka Technologies. They have developed a process that uses inkjet technology to produce PV cells on a plastic substrate. Because they use an inkjet process they can lay down seveal different layers so the cells respond to a wider range of light. If I understood the TV show I was watching correctly the current cost is about a buck a watt. They estimate that the cost could go as low as .10 a watt in large scale production. |
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Brock
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| 06/24/2008 9:50 AM |
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| I have had good luck with http://www.sunelec.com/ Admittedly they are a pain because you have to call and order and they don't take credit cards so I have to get a certified check. I have ordered from them twice with no problems either time. Right now they have four panels at $2.98 a watt. They typically have a bunch in the $3-$4 / watt range. On another forum I am on they say the current panels are made for about $1 per watt already, then you add in overhead, profit and shipping to the retailer and you in the $3 to $4 range. |
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Green Bay, WI. - 4 ton horizontal, 16k gallon indoor pool, 1.8kw solar PV setup, 3400 sq ft |
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gregj
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| 07/02/2008 12:49 PM |
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| So when they describe wattage of panels are they talking watts per hour, watts per day, watts per year or what? And based on what amount of sunlight (noon at the summer solstice at some location, average for the year at some location, or some standardized intensity?) |
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Brock
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| 07/02/2008 4:32 PM |
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Panels are rated in watts per hour with a sun isolation of 1000 lumens per square meter or something like that, basically the sun a solar noon and straight above you (meaning your in a very low latitude in summer). Typically you will see 10-15% less than that in the US in summer at noon. Also as the sun tracks across the sky the power from the sun changes. I start off at 7:30 am with about 50 watts, and then at solar noon I hit the peak, about 600w, and then fall back off to about 50 watts at 7 pm. This is with a 625w array. As temperatures rise the wattage output falls, but in winter since the sun is so far off angle the lower temps still don't make up for it. Say on a sunny day in summer with a 10 mph wind I might see 625w, on a wind less day in full sun I might see 575 because of the heat on the panels.
I should really have watts per hour or W/hr in there, most people just shorten it to watts. |
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Green Bay, WI. - 4 ton horizontal, 16k gallon indoor pool, 1.8kw solar PV setup, 3400 sq ft |
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