ICFfam
Registered Users
Posts:40
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| 11/24/2006 6:07 AM |
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| I am using the IntegraSpec ICF product and the Platon dimple fabric to protect against water infiltration. The ICF supplier indicated that I could just apply the dimple fabric to within a few feet of grade and use a product like Tuff II that would be a few inches below grade and up to the point where the siding would start. This method leaves me with unprotected foam for up to two feet towards the top of my foundation wall with dirt directly against it. Is this the correct solution? I was thinking of using the Tuff II such that it overlapped the top of the Platon dimple fabric, but am concerned about it sticking to the plastic-like material. What do you guys suggest? |
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James Eggert
Registered Users
Posts:984
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| 11/24/2006 10:00 AM |
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I am not a fan of leaving a few feet of unprotected foam for multiple reasons. You may consider bringing the Platon closer to the grade, then using the parging material down to the mounting clip. Keep in mind, that typically the top mounting area od the dimple systems is sealed(sic) to prevent water entry at the top, however, the issue of surface water entering the foam blocks at joints is many times left unanswered.
Look at the total detail before you short-change yourself.
Also, surface grading is paramount to keep water flowing AWAY from any foundation, including using downspout leaders long enough to get gutter water away from the house. |
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Take Care
Jim
Design/Build/Consulting
"Not So Big" Design Proponent |
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Chris DeLucchi
Registered Users
Posts:170
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| 11/24/2006 10:23 AM |
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| You might consider running your dimple drain 6" inches above grade and covering it with a 2-4" thick x 6-12" tall foam grade band that gets paraged. The top of the EPS can be chamfered to shed water. |
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icfblocks
Registered Users
Posts:262
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| 11/26/2006 8:06 PM |
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| I assume from the posts that you are not in the South and don't have a strong concern for termites. |
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Thanks,
Tom
www.advbuildingtech.com |
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ICFfam
Registered Users
Posts:40
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| 11/30/2006 1:03 AM |
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| Thanks for the replies! I'm in Iowa, so termites aren't a huge deal. That said, I don't want to invite the buggers either. If I run the dimple drain 6" above grade and then cover with an additional piece of foam that gets paraged, won't I end up with a bulge that thickness at the top of my foundation wall? |
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James Eggert
Registered Users
Posts:984
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| 11/30/2006 8:24 AM |
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That "bulge" you mention is called and Architectural Detail, if you then finish it to complement your home.
Another way would be to use one section at the top of say Peel-n-stick membrane that either terminates onto the face of the dimple OR behind the dimple.
Issues are
1. say you carry the dimple to 6" below grade, if you let the P&S cover over the dimple, it could eventually lift away from the dimple because of frost movement, although I don't think that would be a concern
or
2. You could carry the P&S behind the dimple, still brought up to the 6" below grade level, because everyone touts how there is no hydrostatic pressure so ALL surface water able to penetrate the grade at that small 6" area below grade would just "flow" away....UHuh.... If properly graded and water removal practices are in place I don't think this would be a problem. How much water can congregate at the area right at the house if graded properly? |
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Take Care
Jim
Design/Build/Consulting
"Not So Big" Design Proponent |
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ICFfam
Registered Users
Posts:40
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| 11/30/2006 10:03 AM |
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| I really like the peel and stick membrane idea - thanks for sharing that. I have another concern at present, though, that I will be taking care of today. We've had a huge volume of rain over the last few days and now we hit a cold snap (12° out now). Sadly, my backfill job hasn't been completed (i.e. I have exposed footing!). I will take care of that today and hope that no damage has been done. |
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walltech
Registered Users
Posts:467
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| 12/02/2006 2:17 PM |
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We use a combination peel and stick with the dimple as explained above. We terminate the dimple about 6" below intended grade and then run a 12" wide p&s 5" or so on to the dimple and the balance on the ICF. This takes care of 3 problems, one the bulge issue, two you can now adjust grade by trimming off some peel if neccesary, and three you can stucco on the p&s by a few inches. Most p&s companys carry this in stock.
Dave |
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ICFfam
Registered Users
Posts:40
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| 12/05/2006 2:38 PM |
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| Do I understand you right that you first put a layer of peel and stick down to the base of the foundation wall and then put the dimple above that? I hope this isn't necessary (just came across this website), since my ICF supplier (who is also a builder) indicated that *just* the dimple fabric was the way to go and that doing more was a waste of money. I've already put gravel down at the base of the footing to cover the form a drain, placed landscape fabric over that, and backfilled. A bit late to be changing things now...someone please tell me that this is okay and that I don't need to dig it all out. |
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walltech
Registered Users
Posts:467
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| 12/06/2006 5:22 AM |
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The dimple runs from 4-6" below grade to top of footing or bottom depending on your drainage. The peel and stick only covers the top 4-6" of the dimple and is 6-8" up on to the ICF wall. At this point you should be slightly above intended grade. You should first cut any pieces necessary to seal your vertical seams, a 6" wide rip of P&S will work for these then run your horizontal over you verticals.
If the P&S will remain exposed to the sun light for any length of time, prime the ICF wall with a ICF compatible primer. This will ensure that the P&S will not start drooping in a few weeks. |
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ICFfam
Registered Users
Posts:40
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| 12/06/2006 9:43 AM |
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| The platon extends to the top of the footing all around and then is covered with the gravel. It sounds like I am in good shape. Thanks for the clarification! I'll be using the primer, though need to see what it says the minimum application temperature has to be. It's supposed to get up to 38° today, not exactly the 50's that most paint products ask for. |
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walltech
Registered Users
Posts:467
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| 12/06/2006 7:56 PM |
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Primer should dry in those temps. It surely will not be dry in one hour like summer would.
What brand of primer are you using? Some seem to dry better and some have antifreeze. |
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ICFfam
Registered Users
Posts:40
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| 12/07/2006 11:49 PM |
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| I can't seem to find a primer product. Argh! Everyone that I've come across says not to use on foam foundations, and the various supply houses that I have been to don't have a clue where to get the stuff. The good news is that the P&S manufacturer claims that primer is not needed above 35° and it's supposed to be in the mid 40's this weekend. |
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