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MatD
Registered Users
Posts:20
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| 12/15/2006 10:06 AM |
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| Hi all -
I am using BuildBlock as my ICFs. I have a section of my second floor (to be done in ICF) that cantilevers over the entry (indicated in yellow in the attached pic).
I have had suggestions to either hand frame this with 2x6, while others have suggested ICF would be fine with enough structural input. The span across the opening of the entry door is 7' wide.
Because of the conflicting opinions I have had, I'm not sure which way to proceed. If I do end up having this hand framed, what sort of precautions should I heed when making an ICF to wood wall connection? I scoured the manual and don't see any sort of guidance on it. The only thing that comes to mind is to essentially place a door buck across that 7' span, pour, then come back and hand frame into the buck and use foam on the outside to makeup for the thickness difference.
Thanks - |
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DallasBill
Registered Users
Posts:119
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| 12/15/2006 3:14 PM |
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MatD... I'm a homeowner, not an install expert, but's here's what our expert recommended to us -- we used framing. The wall section was the front of the media room, overtop the garage. Because of the nature of the roofline, as well as the narrow support columns at either side of the garage, ICF was not a practical option for that short expanse of wall. It had bucks at each side and we double framed the wall (two 2x4 walls) so that we would have the same wall continuity inside and the same deep window ledges outside. Because we were using spray foam for insulation elsewhere, we foamed in the interior of that double wall as well.
It's the section of wall that is centered over the garage door in this picture. BTW, the wall looks like it's hanging out over the garage door plane in that pic, but it's not.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/Billusa99/DSCN2282.jpg
Best of luck... looks like a cool plan! |
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MatD
Registered Users
Posts:20
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| 12/15/2006 5:45 PM |
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Good deal - that seems to make the most sense.
Is that stucco on your house or one of the synthetic products? Looks great! I hope I can go with a metal roof, but the way things are going, it doesn't seem like a reality. |
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DallasBill
Registered Users
Posts:119
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| 12/15/2006 11:14 PM |
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Traditional 3 coat cement stucco. I ordinarily would not apply it overtop stick here, but made an exception for that wall as it's heavily protected from rain by the massive overhang we have.
Good luck! |
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walltech
Registered Users
Posts:467
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| 12/16/2006 9:29 AM |
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| There's no reason not do build this portion out of ICF! What you have is no different than a 8' french door, or slider except you have a better lentil than normal. The traditional opening would only have maybe 24" - 36" of concrete above it carrying the roof load, you have a whole story, better yet! |
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icfcontractor
Registered Users
Posts:225
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| 12/16/2006 6:32 PM |
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Walltech is right. Putting a wood frame wall between your ICF walls will weaken your whole wall system. If you live in a seismically active zone, then this is hugely critical to the strenth of your structure. ICF is really the best way to do it. It is also simpler to do than to frame it later in wood.
I have pictures of a house in Mississippi that was the only house in it's neighborhood to survive the hurricanes in the gulf coast. It had a wood section in it that failed. This allowed the storm surge to come and destroy the interior of the house while the rest of the house looked almost untouched.
Go with concrete.
ICF Contractor |
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icfblocks
Registered Users
Posts:255
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| 12/16/2006 10:26 PM |
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| The picture you have attached clearly shows a cantilevered section of wall. It could be done using ICF's but needs to be engineered probably using a steel beam. It would probably be less costly to build using conventional framing. The framed wall could be attached with j-bolts , wedge anchors or other excepted concrete fastening system. The wall section may not be quite as strong the rest of the wall but if you will "spray foam" the wall for insulation the performance will be close. |
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Thanks,
Tom
www.advbuildingtech.com |
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walltech
Registered Users
Posts:467
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| 12/17/2006 9:22 PM |
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Their is no beam necessary. This is no different than if the upper wall lined up with the lower wall except, as mentioned earlier you have no windows or doors above creating a better than lintel situation. If this was a door or window opening at 7' to 8' feet you would need a #5 top and bottom with stirrups at 12" o.c. just a guess I don't have my prescriptive in front of me with 24" of concrete at 6" thick. You have 7' 8' feet of concrete above this opening probably eliminating the re-bar stirup's completely. I would have no problem putting a #4 on each coarse above this opening spanning as code re quire's each way past the end of opening as long as I was not in a seismic zone. Call me at the office and I will fax or Email the requirements for this wall opening that meets the IRC. 2003.
1-866-251-wall |
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icfblocks
Registered Users
Posts:255
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| 12/18/2006 6:57 AM |
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| Sorry Walltech is right! It's just like any other opening. Just need support for the forms while you pour. The wall will probably not sit on the floor. |
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Thanks,
Tom
www.advbuildingtech.com |
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woulfcc
Registered Users
Posts:176
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| 12/19/2006 11:05 AM |
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Shore & pour,
This wall will tie all of you ext. walls as one.
Think of a box, if you cut out and tape a patch in you have a weak spot. |
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Changing how the world BUILDS!
One build at a time.
Woulf c.c. |
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James Eggert
Registered Users
Posts:983
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| 12/20/2006 8:22 AM |
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I agree that this is a case to use ICFs just as if there was a window below. The amount of labor and thought processes to handle the beam at the bottom of a frame wall isn't worth the effort required to do it.
Assuming the ICF shell indents at the entry door you would carry your floor load from that wall to the exterior plane, requiring such a minimum of loading to be neglible. This would be a good place for a couple anchor tunnels versus Simpson ICFL hangars simply due to very very small loads....unless you're putting something like a Jacuzzi in the overhang area!
Always a caveat, isn't there? |
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Take Care
Jim
Design/Build/Consulting
"Not So Big" Design Proponent |
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