BenMiller
New Member
Posts:95
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| 23 Sep 2007 04:13 PM |
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Hey all,
I didn't intend to start a battle about block company and what's on the horizon. It has been educational and thanks to all who responded. Dave F, you certainly gave the most time to my post, thanks for airing your opinions and recognizing they are in the end... opinions.
For the matter at hand, my forms are on site, the footings are poured, and I've set the exterior perimeter C channel. I am not a foundation contractor... and almost hesitate to mention it after reading the responses to my earlier post. I am a framing/siding contractor looking for an energy efficient house, and looking to reign in some of the costs by doing as much of the work myself as I can. Is it foolish to think I can pour my own foundation (recognizing it supports the entire structure of my home) and leave the electric and plumbing to a proffessional? I'm not trying to diminish what you Pro ICF contractors do, but budget concerns do weigh in awfully heavy. And for all the DIY'ers who read this post (in this case I'd consider myself one as well) I'll try to give you an accurate impression of my experience.
For the record, this is an intentionally simple footprint. 30' by 32'. I'll try to include a pic if I can figure out how to post one. My supplier and salesman have been exceptionally helpful, communicate well, and have offered to be on site for my start. I'll keep you updated.
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lkazanov2
Basic Member
Posts:177
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| 23 Sep 2007 06:24 PM |
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Ben,
Nice looking photo. Keep me posted on your project. I am also very much interested in TF. We have many 45's and 90's corners and TF makes the most sense to me. Let me know how the pour goes and what mix you used. Let us know how the consolidation went and did you have any lean in the wall after the pour. I wish you the best of luck with your project.
Leonard |
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DaveF
New Member
Posts:52
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| 23 Sep 2007 11:07 PM |
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I'll tell you one thing mate, you don't half have a nice hole there, who's your dirt guy?
Working in areas that you don't normaly do can be worrying but as long as your foundations are big enough ie they meet or exheed the engineered parameters then you are OK, the problems that you might face are if they are uneven or tilted because you need a perfectly paralel serface on which to stand your forming system. So if you do have any problems then they would manifest themselves in the greater difficulty of leveling your wall.
For you as an amature the one pice of advice I'd give you is to stick to the book, don't get yourself into difficulties by attempting short cuts, short cuts always lead to poor and uneven walls, LOL.
So take your time, don't rush, and before you place concrete make sure that everything is right, if you're not sure postpone your pour, a day or a week won't make a big difference in the long run.
The one and only secret to standing perfect walls is to do it right the first time.
.........and oh, make sure you buy your foam glue from Windlock, Foam2Foam, and use zip ties from the same guys to strengthen your wall.
Other things that may be usefull would be 3inch wide tape and the kind of snips you find in the gardening section of one of the large chain stores. |
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BenMiller
New Member
Posts:95
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| 24 Sep 2007 09:51 PM |
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Day 1 went well. After the initial learning curve and a visit from my saleman we got rolling. I've posted 3 pics, but you can see the whole thread at linkI'm trying to hold my opinions till after the pour... but it was a real relief and big surprise to have gotten so far today. Granted it's an exceptionally simple and small footprint, but for my first time I was quite pleased. |
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Chris Johnson
Advanced Member
Posts:878
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| 24 Sep 2007 10:03 PM |
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Looks like you did a great job, congrats. Pouring tomorrow? |
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| Chris Johnson - Pro ICF<br>North of 49 |
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BenMiller
New Member
Posts:95
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| 24 Sep 2007 10:08 PM |
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I need to give my electrician time to cut in boxes and run his "smurf" tube conduit out the top. He'd like his boxes and wire in the pour. Plus there's still some bracing that needs to be done, a vibrator to rent, rebar to cut... and a pump truck schedule to fit in to. But, I'm remaining optimistic that we could pour in the afternoon, though I'll take DaveF's advice and not rush this, waiting a day or two to make sure of everything will not hurt.
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DaveF
New Member
Posts:52
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| 24 Sep 2007 10:17 PM |
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Don't forget Mr UFER, of the army corps of engineers. |
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BenMiller
New Member
Posts:95
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| 24 Sep 2007 10:25 PM |
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Huh?
Please explain Mr. UFER
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DaveF
New Member
Posts:52
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| 24 Sep 2007 11:34 PM |
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Your underground earth, it should be buried in the wall and through into the footing.
Either two #4 or one #5 depending on your local inspection regimen. |
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ContractorPete
Basic Member
Posts:115
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| 24 Sep 2007 11:34 PM |
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UFER is a grounding rod for your electrical panel. In most cases a ufer is made out of #4 rebar and is attached to the existing horizontal rebar in the footing. It must attach a minimum of 5' along a existing piece of rebar and must have at least 5 pieces of tie wire attaching the rebar together.
I don't like the plastic over the footing. I think its going to cause major problems in terms of intruding moisture, especially since the walls are being backfilled a significant amount. |
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DaveF
New Member
Posts:52
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| 24 Sep 2007 11:48 PM |
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Thank god, a real builder, I was beginging to despair
Nicely spotted on the water penetration, the problem can be solved with the use of EPRO membrain and Corsela Dorken drain mat or something similar, I'd be more concerned about the concrete jointing though.
There's so many things I wouldn't and would do I thought to hold my tougue. |
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ContractorPete
Basic Member
Posts:115
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| 24 Sep 2007 11:57 PM |
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Yeah I would be really surprised if that passed inspection with the polyethylene draped over the footing. There should be absolutely nothing but a concrete to concrete connection between your footing and icf wall.
Don't hold back on criticism. It is the only way that the population of flying monkeys will decrease... :) |
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DaveF
New Member
Posts:52
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| 25 Sep 2007 12:40 AM |
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Not if they meet me down a dark alley, LOL!
This guys OK, its his first job so he can use all the help he can get.
I've seen some of your houses incidently, you guys are so much better than the others over there in Bend and I think you will do well this coming year. |
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BenMiller
New Member
Posts:95
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| 25 Sep 2007 08:38 AM |
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Thanks for the help on the UFER,
I'll be able to tie it to one of my rods running through the footing. I know it's not tied to the horizontal bar in the footing, but it's as close as I can get now.
Don't hold back on criticism on my account, you'll help me in the long run. How else will I learn?
Ben
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BenMiller
New Member
Posts:95
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| 25 Sep 2007 08:47 AM |
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pcoughlin,
There is no inspections where I'm building, so there's no checks/balances in my building process. That's what you guys are for. :)
I'm building to code (where I know code), but didn't know about that UFER. I've seen the rod's coming up through the garage foundation when we frame, and knew it was for the electrical grounding system, I didn't know it needed to be tied into the horizontal bar. Incidentally, I pushed my vertical bar through my footers into the ground below. Is that wrong? (It's too late now to change at my place, but I'll know if I get the chance again.)
Critique everything you see on my project, it's the only way I'll learn. (decrease the flying monkeys through information/education)
Ben
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KCMOKen
New Member
Posts:14
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| 25 Sep 2007 10:30 AM |
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Nice use of a capillary water break over the footings. Just because people haven't constructed using this technique, doesn't make it wrong. Read here for the proper way of constructing a basement, although myself I would have keyed it together even though this is not really necessary - http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/digests/bsd-103-understanding-basements/ |
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dmaceld
Veteran Member
Posts:1465
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| 25 Sep 2007 10:38 AM |
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As for the ground (UFER) using rebar and the footing here's the NEC requirement, as included in the 2006 IRC.
E3508.1.2 Concrete-encased electrode. An electrode
encased by at least 2 inches (51 mm) of concrete, located
within and near the bottom of a concrete foundation or footing
that is in direct contactwith the earth, consisting of at least
20 feet (6096 mm) of one or more bare or zinc-galvanized or
other electrically conductive coated steel reinforcing bars or
rods of not less than 1/2inch (12.7mm)diameter, or consisting
of at least 20 feet (6096 mm) of bare copper conductor not
smaller than 4 AWGshall be considered as a grounding electrode.
Reinforcing bars shall be permitted to be bonded
together by the usual steel tie wires or other effectivemeans.
Rebar driven into the soil won't do for a ground. It'll rust impairing its conductivity to the soil. Copper clad steel is best. If you tie into the footing rebar you don't need the other.
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| Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help! |
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dmaceld
Veteran Member
Posts:1465
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| 25 Sep 2007 10:59 AM |
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Posted By BenMiller on 09/25/2007 8:47 AM
Incidentally, I pushed my vertical bar through my footers into the ground below. Is that wrong?
Uh, yeah. You're referring to the dowels that go up into the wall, right? The end of the rebar being in the soil will promote corrosion and deterioration of the rebar. You'll always find rebar is required by code to have at least 2" concrete cover. Now, how much long term problem have you created? I would say not enough to loose sleep over it. The rod will rust, but it could take decades for it to deteriorate to where it no longer provides lateral locking between the footing and wall. And for all we know it may rust out in any case. Since there is a joint between footing and wall, water will undoubtedly contact the rebar and rust it out in due time even if the bottom end was inside the footing concrete. You ever seen green rebar? That's epoxy coated and used where rebar corrosion must be prevented. That tells you rebar is subject to corroding regardless of well it's covered with concrete. So I'll say, yes, you goofed, but don't worry about it. Just remember not to do it again if you want to be code compliant.
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| Even a retired engineer can build a house successfully w/ GBT help! |
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DaveF
New Member
Posts:52
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| 25 Sep 2007 01:30 PM |
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Pushing your vertical re-bar is contrary to code at the moment but used to be required for grounding purposes.
The code was changed due to re-engineering calks in LA due to 'surprising' damages due to earth quakes. Supplementary reasoning for the change was introduced into the argument to change using UK code related to the damp proofing of foundations, however the code in the UK requires a 'damp proof course' more properly relating to brick construction and not a continuous concrete wall.
The upshot is that that over the years code has changed several times relating to re-bar, water penetration, and spalling concrete, but the true reasoning why problem occur has never been addressed and that's the concrete itself, people seem to think that concrete is concrete, well no its not. Concrete differs widely from country to country and here in the states differs even from plant to plant.
So technically you did the wrong thing, but there's lots of differing opinion on whats best, so as long as you are not in an earth quake zone I wouldn't worry about it.
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vermaraj
New Member
Posts:34
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| 25 Sep 2007 01:44 PM |
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Nice Job Ben!
One thing we do when forming on site is keep the webs stretched wrapped together. We then place 20' lengths of rebar with 90 bends three feet from the end in the corner and let the long end continue through the stretch wrapped group of webs. Cut the stretch wrap and place a piece of exterior foam, slide one web to the foam, repeat, repeat....
We have found this method more efficient than sliding the rebar through the webs. It comes down to preferences. |
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