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WolfCandy3x
Registered Users
Posts:56
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| 01/23/2008 2:35 PM |
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lolll Eric,
Not that it affects my self estime either, but I've seen some heated arguments for a lot less. So that's why I brought it up..
Just in case some oversensitive people start taking it personnaly lolll I'm impatient about getting some feedback from Grzelakc...
It just doesn't add up...I also forgot to mention this though: When I built my house, the first winter my heat bill was alittle high
compared to what Hydro had budgeted. I realised that my UnderGarage ( which is empty instead of filled with sand ) was letting
a lot of cold air in,, thus obilgating me to heat the basement more...
I finally sprayed the underbelly of the garage slab and put a isolated door to that access.. Problem solved... |
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walltech
Registered Users
Posts:469
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| 01/23/2008 7:25 PM |
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Grzelak: Where those electric baseboard heaters? Please explain.
Dave |
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grzelakc
Registered Users
Posts:16
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| 01/25/2008 1:07 AM |
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Sorry to have abandoned the thread for a while, but here it goes.
The styrofoam in the attic is sealed between sheets with caulk and spray foam for any gaps bigger than 1/8". I can trace no infiltration through the ceiling or electrical fixture boxes. The ceiling is warm to the touch which I think is a sign that it is well insulated. The basement is indeed unheated (or heated very little) and there is no insulation in the main level floor. That said, many of my friends with newer 2 by 6 homes use the same energy while heating both the basement AND the main level. I'm horrified to even try and start heating the basement as my bill will likely go up at least 50-70% as a result. And that would be scary and truly nothing to brag about especially given that I paid a premium for ICF walls.
There are things I've done to the house since I last posted. I added a damper to the exhaust fan in the kitchen, I removed trim pieces sprayed some extra foam in some windows but I don't think this stuff is going to make that much difference. If it improves my efficiency another 10% that will be remarkable. My bet is that it wont even be that.
To be honest I have no idea what went wrong. Admittedly, my windows are mediocre (Robert) but they ARE low-e and Argon filled so I'd expect at least half decent thermal performance there. Maybe I'm wrong.
Overall however, I still think the importance of thick insulation and tight envelope is way overstated. For the money I spent on all those insulation extras (attic styrofoam, basement slab styrofoam, ICF walls etc) I could have purchased a geothermal heat pump which would have likely delivered much better results.
PS. I will do a thermal image and a blow test but I'm not sure who I have to talk to around here. Our phone book doesn't even have a "energy audit" section so I have no idea whom I should call. I'm in the greater Saint John area in New Brunswick.
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Chris Johnson
Registered Users
Posts:341
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| 01/25/2008 1:36 AM |
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Your local hydro company normally has the infared tool available, try them first or ask them for a referral. Contact an R-2000 builder, they can give you access to who does the blower test, it's mandatory on all R-2000 certified homes.
I don't want to spend your money, but...put some heat on in the basement, hot air rises, now I am guessing here but I'm thinking you are fighting to heat the house if you are heating just the upstairs and the basement which is essentially part of the structure is not being heated it is counter reacting with each other, it's winter time, cold wins, kind of like in the hot summer, heat wins over air conditioning.
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Chris Johnson - Pro ICF
Napa, CA
Come for the wine, Stay for the ICF work |
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walltech
Registered Users
Posts:469
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| 01/25/2008 7:25 AM |
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I believe you'll find the cost to heat the lower level to be 10% or less. What is the temps in your basement now without heat?
Dave |
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cdelong611
Registered Users
Posts:7
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| 01/25/2008 8:43 AM |
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Below is the 18 month history on my residence. Michigan 48348
I heat a total of 3600 for the 1st and 2nd story. The basement stairway is open so heat does travel to the basment but the registers are not open in basement and the temp is @ 67. The basement is @ 2600 sq ft with 10 ft ceiling.
2" styro under slab
Pella windows, walkout out basement with 12' doorwall and (3) 48 x 36 casements.
ICF basement, 1st, and 2nd floor.
Attic- Blown in celulose @ 20"
120k btu furmace.
Home is facing North
I have just started to use my hw tank for radiant and it should be working within the week. I would expect @ 30% reduction in heating cost. I will post those results when available.
Nonetheles, the cost to heat and cool my home are substatially lower then my neighbors with the same sq ft. they are consistently 30-40% higher in the winter and 300% summer.
Taxes are included
| Serv.Type |
Begin-Read |
End-Read |
Days |
Energy-Used |
Monthly-Charge |
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12/12/2007 |
1/14/2008 |
33 |
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| GAS |
4012 |
4242 |
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230 |
Actual |
$241.82 |
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$241.82 |
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11/9/2007 |
12/12/2007 |
33 |
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| GAS |
3803 |
4012 |
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209 |
Actual |
$222.94 |
| |
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$222.94 |
| |
10/12/2007 |
11/9/2007 |
28 |
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| GAS |
3737 |
3803 |
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66 |
Actual |
$76.79 |
| |
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$76.79 |
| |
9/14/2007 |
10/12/2007 |
28 |
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| GAS |
3704 |
3737 |
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33 |
Estimated |
$42.93 |
| |
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$42.93 |
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8/15/2007 |
9/14/2007 |
30 |
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|
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| GAS |
3689 |
3704 |
|
15 |
Actual |
$24.55 |
| |
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|
|
|
$24.55 |
| |
7/16/2007 |
8/15/2007 |
30 |
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|
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| GAS |
3675 |
3689 |
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14 |
Actual |
$23.49 |
| |
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|
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$23.49* |
| |
6/15/2007 |
7/16/2007 |
31 |
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| GAS |
3661 |
3675 |
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14 |
Actual |
$23.68 |
| |
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$23.68 |
| |
5/16/2007 |
6/15/2007 |
30 |
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| GAS |
3625 |
3661 |
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36 |
Actual |
$47.74 |
| |
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$47.74* |
| |
4/17/2007 |
5/16/2007 |
29 |
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| GAS |
3562 |
3625 |
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63 |
Actual |
$75.03 |
| |
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$75.03 |
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3/16/2007 |
4/17/2007 |
32 |
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| GAS |
3410 |
3562 |
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152 |
Actual |
$167.29 |
| |
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$167.29 |
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2/15/2007 |
3/16/2007 |
29 |
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| GAS |
3214 |
3410 |
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196 |
Actual |
$203.62 |
| |
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$203.62 |
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1/17/2007 |
2/15/2007 |
29 |
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| GAS |
2952 |
3214 |
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262 |
Estimated |
$272.54 |
| |
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$272.54* |
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12/16/2006 |
1/17/2007 |
32 |
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| GAS |
2773 |
2952 |
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179 |
Actual |
$187.31 |
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$187.31 |
| |
11/15/2006 |
12/16/2006 |
31 |
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| GAS |
2608 |
2773 |
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165 |
Actual |
$172.54 |
| |
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$172.54 |
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10/16/2006 |
11/15/2006 |
30 |
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| GAS |
2511 |
2608 |
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97 |
Actual |
$104.01 |
| |
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$104.01 |
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9/15/2006 |
10/16/2006 |
31 |
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| GAS |
2441 |
2511 |
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70 |
Estimated |
$81.35 |
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$81.35 |
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8/16/2006 |
9/15/2006 |
30 |
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| GAS |
2430 |
2441 |
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11 |
Actual |
$20.18 |
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$20.18* |
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7/18/2006 |
8/16/2006 |
29 |
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| GAS |
2417 |
2430 |
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13 |
Actual |
$21.42 |
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$21.42 | |
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DallasBill
Registered Users
Posts:119
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| 01/25/2008 3:54 PM |
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grzelakc... so, you have a bunch of gaps less than 1/8in that are not sealed/caulked? There's one right there.
The attic door is the other and the basement is the 3rd. The fact that your ceiling is warm is of no consequence -- heat rises. So, if the room is heated, the ceiling is always going to be warm on the heated side. It's the conducted and convective heat loss through the ceiling, into the cold air space above it that is the issue.
Look at it this way. You only have 13in of cellulose -- not very much for up there. You have gaps all over the styro sheet -- not good. Thus, cold attic air migrates down to the bare joists area all over your attic, through the poor insulation and all those gaps in the styro (cold air falls through all that). The joist area is in direct contact with the warm ceiling below. There's your heat loss migration, right there.
Here's how to get an energy audit in NB (Google is your friend):
http://www.efficiencynb.ca/advisors-e.asp
You may have to wait:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2007/04/25/nb-energywait.html |
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hector8762
Registered Users
Posts:12
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| 01/28/2008 3:06 PM |
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Your windows may be part of the problem. Just being "low-e" and argon-filled are no guarantees. You can get cheap windows from Home Depot that are low-e and argon-filled.
I went to the Roberts website, but didn't see any useful data. You'd like to know what the U-value and SHGC are. Those numbers will give you an idea how energy efficient they are.
If you have U-0.50 windows, it hardly matters how well your walls and ceiling are insulated. It's like a bucket with a hole in the bottom - it doesn't matter how water-tight the material around the hole is.
Also, I'm not a big fan of loose cellulose insulation. The numbers (R-value) look good, but I suspect the real-world p | | | |